Tenants making viewings difficult

[areweonabreak]

We have a flat that we rent out. It was my DH’s flat before we met. It’s been rented out for 10 years now (by only 2 tenants) but we’re now in a position where our own house needs a lot of money spending on it and we want to free up some capital.

we do feel bad for the current tenant, we offered them first refusal to buy the flat (it’s on the market for £90k) but they cannot afford it (even though a mortgage would probably be cheaper than the rent but they’d another thread)

we’ve had a few viewings now but all the feedback is that the tenants have told them that they don’t want to move so they’re put off as they don’t want the hassle.

we live about a 40 minute drive away from the flat so the agents are sorting out all of the viewings. The agents have suggested that it might be easier to sell if it’s empty.

We’re really not sure what to do, they’re on a rolling monthly contract at the moment.

has anyone else been in this position before?

would anyone else recommend selling as a vacant property?

These tenants are deliberately making it harder for OP to sell this property with the comments being made, but people think OP should reduce the price or lend these people a deposit to help them out? Bizarre

@TiredandHungry19 Do you think the tenants should lie?

This is one of the reasons I feel so sorry for renters.

But, the OP is doing nothing wrong, it is the stark reality of renting.

It’s not lying to not interact with people doing viewings and make it obvious that you’re going to be a hassle to get out of the property. I don’t know why so many people think this is reasonable behaviour, it’s completely bizarre.

@TiredandHungry19 It is bloody obvious if you are viewing somewhere with tenants to ask those tenants if they have somewhere they are moving to. I would always ask the tenants that and anyone who would not is very naive.
Landlords do not own tenants. They are not slaves. They can say what they want.

The tenants are sabotaging the OP.
No way should she give them a break.

You really think someone will buy a house with sitting tenants without a large price reduction? Even if the tenants were mite it would make no difference. The OP is sabotaging herself, not the tenants.

I see it as they have obviously been good tenants for 10 years if they are still there. Why not help them out? They have probably almost paid the money for the flat already, minus any upkeep etc. It's not like I'm telling them to give it for free. But I don't see why them reducing the price should be so repugnant to you.

We have paid over £70,000 in the time we have been renting out house. In that time there have been minimal repairs made and I'm almost certain the mortgage had already been paid off before we moved in. So pretty much money in pocket. But the cost of renting meant saving a deposit was impossible. Thousands are in this position. Showing a little humanity and helping a couple get on the housing ladder would be nice don't you think.

Now I remember why I stopped commenting on public forums 🤣🤣

I think this is as close as we've got to someone admitting they think the tenants should simply ignore any questions about their plans. Remain mute!

Which when you think about it, is hardly going to inspire confidence in prospective buyers either...

''@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · Today 01:39
The tenants are sabotaging the OP.''

What a ludicrous argument.

It is not the tenants' responsibility to help sell the OP's property.

In fact they are allowing viewings ,which they legally don't have to do so they are doing more than is required of them.

I also don't see why you would expect them to lie if they are asked if they are happy to leave.

The OP is sabotaging herself by not waiting until the property is vacant to start having viewings.

Purely because she wants to continue receiving rent until the property is sold.

it's far better to sell it empty obviously that incurs more expense for landlords which is why so many don't do this.

These tenants are deliberately making it harder for OP to sell this property with the comments being made

😆

I agree that the LL is sabotaging herself.

Properties marketed whilst tenanted fetch lower prices. They face more purchasers who drop out along the way, because there is so much less certainty and legal complication of buying a property which still has tenants in it, and no-one being able to say for certain when it will be vacant possession.

Doing this also sours the relationship with tenants and makes difficulties even more pronounced. Rightly, a tenant will feel their quiet enjoyment that they’ve paid for is being compromised. And that’s not right.

But LLs who think they can only afford to do this ….ie who say they can’t afford to be without rent for a period before completing on a sale, have already sabotaged themselves and also their tenants, by not having crunched the numbers properly and allowed in their calculations for this void period of no tenants and rent whilst marketing the property. Selling will always happen at some point and LLs need to factor in their ‘get out’ plan and financing when starting out.

The trouble is that amateur LLs who essentially sabotage themselves also have a negative impact on tenants too. But of course they often can’t see that, and others can’t either and instead claim it’s the tenants who are sabotaging.

It’s not lying to not interact with people doing viewings and make it obvious that you’re going to be a hassle to get out of the property. I don’t know why so many people think this is reasonable behaviour, it’s completely bizarre.

I agree with this. I was in your tenants situation and it never occurred to me to say that I won’t move. I was frantically looking for a solution, I was upset and nervous but that’s the reality of renting. The owner might decide to sell any time. Your contract has got certain period for the notice so it’s your only cover.

I fully agree, my landlords issues didn't suddenly hit last year, they would have known issues were coming, and they could have told me the truth at which point I would have turned heaven and earth to get us out to avoid the invasion of privacy we are currently struggling with. My eldest is now self harming due to the upset viewings are causing him and me, he can see I am in bits. I'm pretty sure the youngest is internalising things, and I will see the repercussions of that in the future. The landlord is aware I have dependent children with extra need, and he just doesn't give a damn. My previous two landlords were wonderful, I don't hate all landlords now, just the one that's causing me to have a mental breakdown and to feel like I am out of control and all because he couldn't just be honest and behave morally.

OK, so what do you think the tenants should do if and when they're asked whether they want to move by prospective buyers? Bearing in mind they don't want to move, and what you wanted to do in the same situation isn't anything to do with what they want and what their truth would be.

No I am not going to read the whole thread so ignore this if need be

But a flat would more likely be Boigu by another investor than a family home?

So if the tenants want to stay and the, possible, future landlord saw how reasonable they were they may continue they lease?

It could be in the tenants best interest to help maybe?

In all my 10 years of renting invluding 2 properties being sold, no one has ever asked me "Do you want to move".
"Why are you moving" yes, absolutely, to which I said why. But honestly, eho asks someone do you want to move.
Also "Not really of course, good place, bit we are looking now" is absolutely fine answer

Is the shop keeper asking you to re stock the shelves or jump on a till for an hour for their benefit?

I agree it’s a red herring to be worrying about what tenants should say to potential purchasers.

If I was viewing a tenants property (and I wouldn’t…because of all the uncertainties surrounding these and fact you could wait over a year to exchange) I might ask if the tenant had given notice or been given notice by the LL?

Why? Because a tenant who has given notice of their own accord wants to go and is much more likely to have something lined up and to vacate at the end of their notice period.

As a tenant, if I were asked this question,I’d answer honestly. It’s a perfectly ordinary question and a LL can’t expect a tenant to not say they’ve been given notice.

I do t think the Q ‘do you want to move’ is likely. Instead, the relevant question is about who has given notice….not quite the same thing.

What prospective buyers would like to ask, but usually won’t ask directly is ‘will you be going shortly or by x date’. They might want to ask it, but a tenant owes nothing to a prospective buyer and does not need to answer this question, ir might not even know the answer to the question.

So the point is, a buyer if a tenanted property simply cannot know if and when a tenant will go. Asking might not reveal what is actually going to happen. It’s a key reason why people do t want to put offers in on tenanted properties, or often when they do, then pull out quickly when they realise all the uncertainties.

These uncertainties are not down to the tenants. They are down to the LL trying to market the property before it’s vacant.

People are often muddling up 2 separate issues….whether LLs should serve notice to tenants (legally they can and most LLs will need to sell at some point….but clearly there are better and worse timings and ways to do it) and the second and separate question of whether LLs should market properties with tenants still in them - the answer to this is, in almost all circumstances, no.

Yes we have been in this situation. Similar reasons to yourself. I owned a flat before meeting DH. We need to do lots on our house and want to release capital. We had a tenant who refused viewings.

In the end we served notice. It is a much easier way to sell as an empty property with no chain than it would have been with a tenant in situ. If you don't evict you may then encounter them refusing to move once sold. I can understand why people would be put off buying with a tenant in situ.

We are liable for Council tax and obviously the mortgage isn't covered by rent, which has made things a little tight paying out for two properties but better that than legal problems later down the line.

Honestly op. I'd give them thru two months notice now. Houses are always easier to sell when they're not cluttered with other peoples stuff. ( also most people on mummery advise people to make their landlords evict them so that will take time if they choose to go down that road)

The council also will not take responsibility for a tenant who just leaves a property, they have to be evicted for the council to help them. There are no private rents around, there's even a waiting list for those, and the people with an eviction notice in their hands are the ones moving to the top of the list!

It's always said like it's the tenant's fault they can't go anywhere, it is the system that is broken that causes the majority of tenants having to follow this route just to prevent being on the streets.

If someone could come up with what I am meant to do to prevent myself having to take this route and putting both myself, my family and my landlord through this hell then do please tell me the magic hoodoo I need to perform.

OP as a landlord you were always going to come up against posters who will only see you as the bad one.
It's horrible for the tenants who just want to enjoy the home they are paying to live in, and understandably don't want to move.
But, the property belongs to you and you are perfectly entitled to remove that service, as long as you follow the proper procedures, whenever you want. You are not responsible for their housing. That's between themselves, the council and their bank.
So just give them notice and move on.

Poor you. I'm sure it will get sorted out to your satisfaction eventually.