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Original poster

Have we finally let go of the idea that it's better to have sons than daughters?

146 replies

Echobelly · 28/02/2023 16:22

Do you think our society has got rid of the last rememnants of the idea that a son is the 'gold standard' of having a child?

I got thinking about this watching an Orthodox Jewish mum (I'm Jewish myself) manouevering 3 small daughters through the Tube this morning and reflecting she'd likely be keeping going with the kids until at least one son was born, as in her context daughters would probably still be considered a bit of a disappointment - but I think society on the whole has now moved beyond that.

My parents - very much of Boomer generation - genuinely weren't bothered about the genders of their grandchildren. My grandparents weren't really either, but I do remember a few comments, after their first 3 great-grandchildren were
girls, that gently implied a boy would be extra-desirable somehow. Nothing hurtful, but I could sense the feeling had been fairly well inculcated in them that it was a bit better to have a boy.

The preference for a son stuff was obviously wrapped up in a lot of obsolete things - dowries, that only a son could 'make you proud' with his career etc - and some not quite obsolete things, like 'carrying on the family name'. I guess these attitudes may continue in the aristocracy where somehow male primogeniture still sometimes hangs on. And, as I mentioned, in some religious groups where sons are still considered worth more, and obviously you can still have people who on an individual level feel sad about not having any sons once they complete their family, but that's probably not for 'family name' or 'only a son can make us proud' reasons. But I think as a whole we've dropped the cultural concept that boys are best.

OP posts:
RaspberriesToYouToo · 28/02/2023 20:02

fairywhale · 28/02/2023 18:33

I think you are confusing different cultures here.
In the culture of this country daughters are valued no less and often above the sons and this has been the case since I can remember, particularly for the middle classes.
Some minority and particularly newer cultures to the UK often don't value women or girls and this concept being introduced in the UK of course has at least some impact on the culture of this country and how females are viewed and the female freedoms and choices are being erased at a phenomenal speed.
I'm sorry the main culture of the country you live in and benefit from passed you by. Try to expand your horizons a bit.

Really?

I can attest to my mother’s preference for boys to carry on the name and be generally useful, and I’m only late 40s. Admittedly we are working class white British, but sexism is still very much the norm in our region (north). Girls are valued as sex objects only in general society and dress accordingly. Not all sexism comes from other cultures, although I’m not someone who believes in importing worse or more.

roundcork · 28/02/2023 21:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the user.

Notaflippinclue · 01/03/2023 10:21

Boys take a wife - girls are for life.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Families
AllThingsServeTheBeam · 01/03/2023 10:23

Notaflippinclue · 01/03/2023 10:21

Boys take a wife - girls are for life.

Outdated nonsense

MrsPotterings · 01/03/2023 10:24

You got longer with a child if you have a son. Whether that is good or bad is another question 😁

Deadringer · 01/03/2023 10:29

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 01/03/2023 10:23

Outdated nonsense

Show quote history

It is outdated nonsense but true in my family's case, and actually in every family i know.

Ozgirl75 · 01/03/2023 10:49

I’m from Australia and I have two boys. Definitely the Chinese parents I know think I have “done well” to have two boys!
As to the whole “girls will look after parents”, I know I wouldn’t want that anyway, so for me, either sex was fine. Plus I’ve turned out to have two very affectionate, nice kind boys who aren’t particularly boisterous anyway!

kitcat15 · 01/03/2023 22:08

Notaflippinclue · 01/03/2023 10:21

Boys take a wife - girls are for life.

Very relevant where Iive....girls stay closer to their families

Truestorypeeps · 29/04/2023 01:02

I was perfectly happy with having boys or girls, I just prayed they'd be healthy and happy in life.

blueshoes · 29/04/2023 01:08

Girls are more prized in the UK by mothers, not necessarily by fathers. Boys in the East, definitely.

DogDamIt · 29/04/2023 01:14

I'm fortunate to have one of each. When I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually wanted another boy.
However, when she arrived and the midwife announced that she was a girl, I was thrilled to bits.

ChopperC110P · 29/04/2023 01:29

frozendaisy · 28/02/2023 16:28

It helps that the monarchy have finally let females in line take the throne.

Wonder if they will allowed an openly gay king or queen? Nah one step at a time eh!

King Richard I was openly gay. He had an affair with the King of France until they had a falling out over Richard I rejecting the King of France’s sister.

King Edward II was flaming gay but his wife Isabella of France (called she-Wolf by the English) seized the throne, put her son on it and then had him quietly murdered. So while he was accepted by the English and kept a court of comely youths, his French wife took matters into her own hands by amassing a French army that she augmented with Welsh rebels.

user1477391263 · 29/04/2023 01:39

Boy preference tends to die out or shift to girl preference as societies have developed - we’ve seen South Korea go through this shift within our lifetimes.

The traditional disadvantages of having a girl (lower prestige, lower or zero earning ability, the fact that girls were seen as being “lost” when they got married) disappear with female liberation, and societies move away from patrilocal patterns (not in most of Europe, but traditionally common in much of Asia) where your daughter-in-law moves in with you, becomes your servant and looks after you in old age.

Instead, women have more autonomy about what they do in life, and the usual result of this is that, if anything, parents of daughters tend to win out a bit more in the long term - women are usually closer to their own parents and build stronger relationships with them into adulthood, on average (yes, I know everyone individual is different blah blah).

Mamaneedsadrink · 29/04/2023 02:34

Popc0rn · 28/02/2023 16:25

Interesting. I think most people would rather have a daughter, as daughters are often expected to care for parents as they get older.

Funny you say that as for most non Western cultures it's the son

Nimbostratus100 · 29/04/2023 07:17

ChopperC110P · 29/04/2023 01:29

King Richard I was openly gay. He had an affair with the King of France until they had a falling out over Richard I rejecting the King of France’s sister.

King Edward II was flaming gay but his wife Isabella of France (called she-Wolf by the English) seized the throne, put her son on it and then had him quietly murdered. So while he was accepted by the English and kept a court of comely youths, his French wife took matters into her own hands by amassing a French army that she augmented with Welsh rebels.

Show quote history

totally irrelevant to the thread but Edward II wasn't murdered - he escaped to France and had a long happy life, reconciled to his son Edward III. An anonymous body that no one ever saw was buried in his place. His brother attended the funeral in 1327, but was executed 3 years later by Mortimer, Isabella's lover, for attempting to return Edward II to the throne. This is was point at which Edward III seized power from his mother and her lover.

JustDanceAddict · 29/04/2023 07:25

🤔 I’m also Jewish and my thinking is if you have a girl their children will be Jewish whoever they marry, but a boy’s won’t. Not that I’m too bothered in terms of ‘keeping the race going’, but more will there be issues with keeping the wider family ‘together’ for festivals etc. Half my parents’ families married out and it def wasn’t the same w the non-Jewish ‘half’ in terms of keeping in touch etc as we didn’t have that ‘everyone getting together for Passover’ thing. But that’s just my experience.
It’s obviously different for other cultures where boys are prized more for ‘reasons’. I have one of each and I’ll just be pleased if they meet someone decent at this rate!!!

JustDanceAddict · 29/04/2023 07:27

Ps: the ‘girl is for life’ thing is BS. My DH and his bro are v involved w his DM, esp his bro (imho to an unhealthy level - bit of co-dependency going on). Think it’s really an individual thing and not a ‘gender’ thing.

frozendaisy · 29/04/2023 07:30

ChopperC110P · 29/04/2023 01:29

King Richard I was openly gay. He had an affair with the King of France until they had a falling out over Richard I rejecting the King of France’s sister.

King Edward II was flaming gay but his wife Isabella of France (called she-Wolf by the English) seized the throne, put her son on it and then had him quietly murdered. So while he was accepted by the English and kept a court of comely youths, his French wife took matters into her own hands by amassing a French army that she augmented with Welsh rebels.

Show quote history

Then the uptight paranoid Christian Victorians who were utter hypocrites came along, outlawed anything fun with sex, and the royal family have been inbred miserable cocks since.

All back to straight males, producing a male heir.

ArrrMeHearties · 29/04/2023 07:32

First baby I wanted always wanted a boy and I had said boy. 2nd pregnancy was a boy as is this one. I'm not sad that I won't have a daughter it is just the luck of the draw what you end up having

cptartapp · 29/04/2023 07:40

user1477391263 · 29/04/2023 01:39

Boy preference tends to die out or shift to girl preference as societies have developed - we’ve seen South Korea go through this shift within our lifetimes.

The traditional disadvantages of having a girl (lower prestige, lower or zero earning ability, the fact that girls were seen as being “lost” when they got married) disappear with female liberation, and societies move away from patrilocal patterns (not in most of Europe, but traditionally common in much of Asia) where your daughter-in-law moves in with you, becomes your servant and looks after you in old age.

Instead, women have more autonomy about what they do in life, and the usual result of this is that, if anything, parents of daughters tend to win out a bit more in the long term - women are usually closer to their own parents and build stronger relationships with them into adulthood, on average (yes, I know everyone individual is different blah blah).

But women of just daughters are also more likely to be left as LP. Research shows most men want boys, and are more likely to leave the family unit if their offspring are solely female.

Coffeeandbourbons · 29/04/2023 07:51

HazyDragon · 28/02/2023 17:55

I have one of each and find it's always the parents of all boys or all girls, that have the strongest views on this.

"I'm so glad that I had two girls, no idea what I would do with a boy" and vice versa. And #girlmum #girlgang at the end of every post.

They can also have really strange ideas about what opposite sex children are like.

I agree. I have both and only then do you realise how inconsequential it is.

Coffeeandbourbons · 29/04/2023 07:57

I also know a few people who had 3 or 4 boys and would tell anyone who would listen how much they loved being a boy mum, how girls were sly/bitchy and they ‘wouldn’t know what to do with them’ but then when baby 4 or 5 turned out to be a girl, they did a 180 and it was all ‘can’t believe I have my girl, so blessed’

MissTrip82 · 29/04/2023 09:09

ZeroFuchsGiven · 28/02/2023 16:26

Have you never read the gender disappointment threads on here? Its always about boys, always. Girls are deemed far more superior.

It’s not usually about superiority though is it?

It’s quite commonly extremely sexist gendered fantasies about shopping together etc.

It comes from deeply sexist beliefs about a range of things. Girls aren’t the ‘winner’ if they’re born into that environment.

user1477391263 · 29/04/2023 09:35

Mamaneedsadrink · 29/04/2023 02:34

Funny you say that as for most non Western cultures it's the son

Show quote history

Nope. It’s the daughter in law. Sons are valued because they bring in a daughter in law who waits on you hand and foot.

Thankfully things are changing pretty rapidly in much of Asia, but historically that kind of idea has been pretty common.

A lot of Chinese parents abandoned baby girls in the 80s and 90s based on these ideas, only to discover that their desperately wanted son can’t marry due to the shortage of women; those men that do marry have found that Chinese women are now in much more of a position to pick and choose, and are increasingly refusing to move in with in-laws and behave like a serf. Parents of daughters, however, are usually able to have grandchildren, and finding that their daughters are more likely to support their parents in their old age.

I wonder if some of these elderly couples are now thinking of the baby girls they abandoned and thinking “What if…. If only…”

GettingThereCharleyBear · 29/04/2023 09:41

@DogDamIt i always find that “fortunate enough to have one of each” tiresome too - almost as tiresome as the hideous phrase “gender disappointment” which is always about boys.

You might think that having one of each is fortunate but I don’t. I’ve had that said fo me so many times and I have to bite my tongue every time not to be rude.