Have we finally let go of the idea that it's better to have sons than daughters?

[Echobelly]

Do you think our society has got rid of the last rememnants of the idea that a son is the 'gold standard' of having a child?

I got thinking about this watching an Orthodox Jewish mum (I'm Jewish myself) manouevering 3 small daughters through the Tube this morning and reflecting she'd likely be keeping going with the kids until at least one son was born, as in her context daughters would probably still be considered a bit of a disappointment - but I think society on the whole has now moved beyond that.

My parents - very much of Boomer generation - genuinely weren't bothered about the genders of their grandchildren. My grandparents weren't really either, but I do remember a few comments, after their first 3 great-grandchildren were
girls, that gently implied a boy would be extra-desirable somehow. Nothing hurtful, but I could sense the feeling had been fairly well inculcated in them that it was a bit better to have a boy.

The preference for a son stuff was obviously wrapped up in a lot of obsolete things - dowries, that only a son could 'make you proud' with his career etc - and some not quite obsolete things, like 'carrying on the family name'. I guess these attitudes may continue in the aristocracy where somehow male primogeniture still sometimes hangs on. And, as I mentioned, in some religious groups where sons are still considered worth more, and obviously you can still have people who on an individual level feel sad about not having any sons once they complete their family, but that's probably not for 'family name' or 'only a son can make us proud' reasons. But I think as a whole we've dropped the cultural concept that boys are best.

Why are there loads of threads on here atm that read like they're looking for opinions or research for an article?

Like is someone genuinely sitting at home writing great big OPs like this purely to discuss and have no ?

I think it’s totally flipped to the point boys are no longer as valued as girls by a lot of people. In dh family girls are actively favoured while boys are very much not viewed as important and do not get treated nearly as well. They buy into stereotypical daft nonsense such as girls are “princesses” and boys are rough etc. As a boy mum who is happy to have only boys I have had lots of comments directed at me about how I should try for a girl etc. I don’t want more kids girl or boy. I love my boys and value them for who they are. As a mum i have encouraged and helped my kids do well in school, learn manners, rules etc which is why they all do very well in school and generally behave well. I would have done the same regardless of if I had boys or girls.

Pressed send too soon

And have no impact on the poster?

This

My feeling on MN has always been that girls are preferred.

In my family the preference was definitely for boys. I didn't mind either way when I was having my dc and I ended up with both. I do feel though that if I had a choice of only girls or only boys, I would have chosen girls. Possibly to buck the trend of preferring boys in my family, but really because as a female I identify more with girls.

I think the gender disappointment thing is individual though, rather than a societal factor, which is what I'm talking about. Yes, some mums will be sad they didn't have a girl, some dads will be sad they didn't have a boy, but that's about feeling they would have been closer to a child the same sex, not that society would afford them somehow a higher status for having had one rather than the other.

I can see there is a sense that boys are seen as harder to bring up (though mine has been lovely) and in that sense girls may feel more wanted, but again that's not because society sees boys as worth less than girls somehow - just as more of a challenge.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea - hadn't noticed other threads. I am a longtime poster here!

I come from a military background and there was a distinct preference for boys. My brother was always being told he was "the only son" and when I got a place at a good university my parents were told it was a waste of money as I'd just go and get married ....... Even now I can see the difference in the way my parents treated my brothers 2 girls from his first wife and my two girls as opposed to the way they are all over my brothers 2 sons from his fourth wife..... Just as well I did get myself an education rather than relying on a prime matrimonial specimen like my little brother.....

I do think the preference for daughters is a relatively new thing, the last 25 years or so.

I am an orthodox Jewish mum myself, I had 2 girls first, never felt that pressure to have a boy! Just relief that we didn't have to make a party with an 8 day old baby and head over in heels in love with our daughters. But, I guess if you would have seen me with my 2 little girls you would have assumed I was somehow 'disappointed'???

(I did go on to have more kids, both boys and girls, I didn't stop when i had 2 boys and 2 girls - I kept going because I wanted more)

There is requirement to (try) and have at least one boy and one girl, so an orthodox Jewish family might feel pressure to keep going if they have 3 boys too.

Anyway, most Orthodox Jewish families have larger families anyway, having four or five or more kids is not unusual.

Of course, there are Orthodox Jewish families where boys are more valued, that might be more common in other branches of Orthodox Judaism than in mine. But there are secular families and non Jewish families where boys are more valued too.

Personally (but i understand this is just a personal thing) I would rather have only girls than only boys. But that probably stems from me being female and understanding girls more than boys. My husband might feel differently.

I hope, as parents, we value all our children and love them and nurture them.

I do think it is annoying of people to act as though a parent with two or more of the same sex children must want one of the other. I wouldn't dream of making a comment to someone implying they must want a boy or a girl, and I can't think why anyone would think it's appropriate to suggest.

My mother years for a grandson. Even to the point where she claimed she was being "punished" because she's had three granddaughters so far. So no, we haven't all moved on

yearns, not years

I think it's because the OP is jewish. Generally, in modern British culture, it's the daughters that look after their parents. In Chinese, it's the sons. The daughters are married off and then part of the husbands' families.

I think it's really just as simple as that. The more people feel their daughters and sons are part of their future, the more benefit they see of having them.

100%. Infact I'd say it has flipped.

Had I had boys first, I would have kept going for a girl.

My DH initially wanted a boy when I first fell pregnant. But within a few weeks he'd totally changed his mind. He decided it would be well cool to take his daughter to the football, or to shows and concerts he likes (when she's older obvs). I think he thought he wouldn't be able to share all his hobbies and things with a girl but very quickly realised (on his own - no persuasion necessary) that was bollocks - that's not the world girls live in these days.

It has totally flipped. All boys in my family and when we had 2 girls the jealousy was rife

It has flipped, which is just as bad.

But when it seems like 99% of “gender disappointment” goes one way (wanting a girl) can we really say this is individual..? Or is it now that it’s the societal norm to want a girl?

Boys are considered a disappointment on here, and talked about as though they will probably become at best an abusive man child and at a worst violent/sexual offender (and if they do it will be their mother's fault - oh, the irony). I don't think they are considered as good a girls at all.

I remember when I was in labour, nearly 50 years ago, and the midwife said she'd just delivered a mum of baby 13, she had 12 sons and was determined to keep going to she got the girl. Baby 13 got her what she wanted.

When I was born, 70 years ago, people in my community seemed to prefer boys (Irish Catholics) as my mother told me how everyone commiserated about another girl. Maybe that was my community and this is about your community.

I think boys are generally harder to talk to, bond with etc, a bit vacuous.

Then they grow up and aren't that bothered about their childhood family.

I mean this sounds like weird generalisation!

There's a big preference for males in my family which is hilarious and hard to understand because whilst the women fawn over men, they also have contempt for the same male family members. It's bizarre.

I'm very sceptical about this. My DH wants a girl and I (female) have a slight preference for a boy.

Obviously happy with either but we each seem to have a slight preference for the opposite sex!