Thread 5 - TalkExiles: "The Planet Goes On Being Round"

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of previous lifeboat threads (thread 4).

Gather here all ye refugees from the JTT Flat Earth Society, welcome to the reassuringly oblate spheroid of MN! Ye all already know the answers to the questions "How the heck do I format my post?" "Why can't I edit my typos?" "What do those acronyms mean?" and most importantly, "Where is everybody that I used to know?"

So really we're all here just to chat randomly.

I'm just curious to see what crawls out, I guess.

Good solo effort! MrW and I got 10 between us, although we are kicking ourselves at not getting the first 2.

We got 3,5,7,8,9,11,12,13,14,15.

In fact if you’d been on our team as well @SinnerBoy we’d have cleaned up.

@Ginmonkeyagain - I'm pretty much with you, possibly slightly to the left of you (may have been corrupted by 20 years of living in ThatAmerica). I went on the original JTT thread of hate basically to find out more about something I had concerns but little knowledge about. I've been having conversations with my daughter while I'm here (she's a psychotherapist) and she has a more accepting (but not brainlessly accepting thank goodness) view of the whole gender issue than I do.

Her view (if I've got it right) is that my parents' generation lived through the trauma of wars and their views were very much shaped by lack of choice, and being raised in the 50s and 60s as I was, I was shaped by that. My children, born in the 70s and 80s, had more sense of choice about sexuality but not about gender. She says that she grew up not thinking there was any choice about gender identity, and if she'd been born in this century might well have had a more fluid sense of it. She thinks now children are confused and uncertain because of too much of a sense of choice that they don't have a sufficiently developed sense of self and identity to navigate. It's an interesting nuance though I'm not sure I agree with it.

I used to do the quiz before I gave up on the Guardian, nice to see it again (I haven't tried it yet).

Gin, that's why I'm coming to the conclusion a lot of them are stupid - not because they disagree with me, but that they seem intellectuallly incurious - the no debate mantra suits them perfectly, because they don't want to be exposed to challenging ideas, to have to think things through, to ask tough questions. Strongly attracted to a black and white world view with good people and bad people. Most if not all of us here (and on MN generally) have gone on a long journey of change and exploration and discovery, some of it hard, and people who just want to sit and congratulate themselves on their innate rightness seem culpably naive.

How can anyone imagine they can support gay rights and the genderist movement when the latter is directly and explicitly antagonistic to the former?

That's precisely what I think! Also how can those who support environmentalism and know that climate change is real be so anti another kind of science, ie biology!? Pro science when it suits their agenda, anti science when it doesn't. The whole thing is full of contradictions. Which is why no debate is so crucial. Once you start to unpick it the whole thing inevitably unravels.

And I agree with Gin that small communities can often be the most vicious. Same as living in a small village compared to a town or city.

Loved the story of Nimrod in the bath, @NotDrowningJustCrowing!

I don't have any cat in the bath stories, but our old dog was a real one for falling in water, canals mainly which could make it difficult to get him out. One time we were out for a walk and he was sniffing about behind me, or I thought he was, and suddenly came haring around the corner drenched, except for the end of his tail. I'd love to know what happened. Another time, he was due a check up at the vet and we were early so had a quick walk beforehand and he managed to fall into a stream. I had to take him to the vets all wet and apologise for bringing him in that state.

Reading reports of the other place, it sounds absolutely toxic and I shall avoid looking. What was said about the atmosphere there making someone feel their guts all twisted up is spot on. There is a real abusive relationship vibe going on.

Another thing that would put off potential new posters is the length of some threads. There are quite a few that run for many thousands of posts, which looks incredibly off-putting.

I've really enjoyed posting here, and am extremely grateful for the kindness and support people have shown me in dealing with my health problems.

However, I really don't want to be part of a thread which is the result of an argument that I wasn't at all involved in. I have never posted about the topic, as I find the polarisation and divisive nature of the topic distressing.

I have friends here and on JTT who have views on either side, it seems unreconcilable to me and I don't have the mental strength or capacity to navigate it.

I have found the last few months extremely isolating in the real world, and I am lonely and just want some friendly on-line company. So I won't be around any more.

Winterborne74 · Today 10:52

In fact if you’d been on our team as well @SinnerBoy we’d have cleaned up.

Oh, what a shame. The pH one had me stumped at first and then it pinged into my mind!

Oh no @BinkerTell please don't leave! I'm with you on preferring not to hear about (or from) the other place. It's not for me to tell others not to vent because it's not up to me how others feel, so I've just been letting it flow past me and talking about other stuff. Is there any way you could somehow manage similar? (Forgive me if you can't overlook it!)

It’s just blown up these last couple of days because of the relaunch over there, there’s no reason for the conversation to carry on for too much longer. Probably back to normal by the next iteration of this thread? Stick around Binker, or at least come back in a few days when we’re fully back to cats, dogs, etc.

I'm sorry that you feel you have to leave, @BinkerTell

If you don't like this particular subject, why not simply avoid these threads and post on others, which you do like, or find interesting? Nobody wants you to leave!

BinkerTell I'll miss you if you go, and think it would be a shame if you lost a place where you can hang out.

But I think the rest of us do need a place we can vent. After 20+ years with GUT/JtT/NtT we'd all got used to interacting with the many pleasant people there and regretted the threats and exile. We've been waiting more than three months for this handover, hoping it might work out well. Maybe it still will. But pretending the storm of abuse over there isn't happening is impossible, and I at least have to wonder how it is happening.

As I've said before, I always wondered how totalitarian ideologies take over societies, and watching it happen in a place I imagined I knew is horrific.

I took a look just now and it didn't twist my guts till I saw that someone has said I went back with a new username a couple of weeks ago to berate them. This isn't true. I haven't posted on there since December when I said I was leaving, due to eyesight issues with the new layout. I in fact left in Sept when the new design came in. I didn't ask them to change it for me or complain. I simply said it was unusable for me. The same is true of Twitter.

My biggest beef with that place is the lies they told. I deeply deeply resent being lied about. I don't care about the abuse. I don't care what names I get called. That's water off. But the lies are incredibly difficult to cope with. Because some people may believe them and I hate that people might believe something horrible about me that isn't true. It's the factual stuff that really pisses me off not the commentary/opinion.

I can't do anything about it. It's happened to me before over there - never ever anywhere else on the internet.

I apologise for my rant but I'm upset and I have nowhere else I can share this with people who know of which I speak. I won't look anymore. If someone over there is telling lies about me there isn't anything I can do to stop them and in fact protesting is often taken as a sign of guilt! So I'll stop looking. I should've done that before but it's like a scab you can't help pick at.

Again, my apologies for the rant. Please forgive me.

I'm sorry to hear that @MissLawls - sounds ghastly, but yes the best thing is to try not to look. Easier said than done, of course.

It was Nemo, Lawlsie, he who chased me round the boards for months a year or so back accusing me of things I hadn't done. Either mad or evil or both. I wonder does he tell lies about male posters as well or is it just women he has an issue with?

oh, and hava (((hug)))

He is, well, an odd fish. By any standards.

Sorry to hear that @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry he isn't the one who told the lie about me. I'm not sure it's helpful for me to say who it was but it wasn't him. Maybe that person will read this? I know she likes to pop over here from time to time and report back on us. I know she keeps an eye on us tho god knows why.

In a way the vicious outbreaks over there remind of the first lifeboat set up by Tass and someone else. Anyone else remember that? On the weekend the guardian shut it down there was a lifeboat already in existence - guardian exiles I think it was called? It was before Johnny set up his site. My it got VERY nasty very quickly. This one has a similar feel to me. Maybe it'll settle down and be okay. I want it to for the decent people over there and because there are people who really need it

And thanks for the hug @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry - right back at you! Times like this I need to remember that Rosie Duffield follows me on Twitter! I'm incredibly proud of that.

Nemo did say it too - if the female poster is the one who did the drive-by here a few times I wouldn't see it because putting her on ignore was my first act after re-registering. Solipsism, stupidity, sneakiness, and spite seem to be her mission in life and they are things I can do without.

MissLawls · Today 12:08

My biggest beef with that place is the lies they told. I deeply deeply resent being lied about. I don't care about the abuse.

Well, I haven't been to have a look at the Sparkly NEW JTT and that is putting me off further. I had spats over the years, particularly on GUT and had people lie, exaggerate and call me all sorts.

There was one, where PaddyC was calling out some homophobic bullies and getting a real roasting, so I wrote something supportive. Several of them weighed in, with threats to track down my IP and get some coke dealers to come and sort me out.

I just don't want to see anything like that written about me - not the gangster stuff, just the dishonest slagging.

I'd be very careful about talking about that person, they have shown that they will take a single post and make it into a huge issue with which to take back there and build a narrative of what is happening here that is totally unrepresentative but neverthless taken at face value, painting themselves as the victim while they spend a lot of time trashing both the group who left and lying about individuals.

I am sorry they are lying about you Lawlsie, it is horrible to see people talking about. you but even worse if they are spreading lies that are being believed.