Epsom College Murder Suicide

[PleaseStopSayingHuBbY]

I'm shocked but not surprised. This world is depressing and scary for women.

It is so sad that even at the end she was trying to keep the abuse secret by ringing a relative instead of the Police.
We can't be embarrassed. We need to call out DV every single time.

FickleOnion · Today 03:26

"For those with children at Epsom or offers from Epsom, does it change how you feel about the school?"

Presumably the families knew about the rifle ranges and were ok with shooting/hunting/guns being associated with the school. Maybe they will be forced re-evaluate whether this is appropriate now that they've seen where the power, violence and entitlement can lead.

You are right, of course. Addressing male violence instead of excusing, dismissing, and in the case of self-ID, facilitating it should be top of the agenda.

But I don't think it would hurt to have stricter legislation around guns.

Totally agree

I worked with a man who killed his wife at home. You would never have thought he was the "type" to do something like this but who is? He only got 6 years.

If you are responding to me, I think had she had the opportunity she would have tried to fight him to give her child a chance.

It's not a comfort to me, believe you me, because ultimately male brute strength would win out - we all know that. And I'm certainly not criticising her - being in a situation of violence is horrific. I've experienced the terror of domestic violence in my own childhood. It's often paralysing, the helplessness in the face of superior force and sheer male rage. I'm not trying to minimise the horror at all.

Women who experience domestic violence and their children are stigmatized. There is pretend support. But they are treated as difficult reminders of male behaviour and thus, disregarded.

You are right about this - women are stigmatised. "She should have done X", "She shouldn't have done Y", "She must have done something or he wouldn't have done Z". "It was only a slap", "He's under stress" etc etc etc - excuses for male violence are infinite.

Women shouldn't have to tiptoe around men to be safe or to keep their children safe.

Obviously, we have no idea. But based on what I've seen on here, it's far more likely that he had convinced her the police wouldn't help her/would blame her or that he convinced her that if the police were called all their lives would be ruined etc etc. She would have kept it secret becuase he'd convinced her she had no choice.

I'd imagine she rang a relative as it would be quicker than hanging on the phone to the police.

I absolutely agree with this.

One if my nieces was in a horrendously abusive relationship with an absolutely psychotic piece of shit. I say was - he’s never completely off the scene and never leaves her/ the family alone entirely, just constantly niggling, harassing and testing for any sign of weakness he can exploit. The things he’s put her through would fill a thread of its own, but my point is that there have been more than a few comments from those who know what’s happened that it either doesn’t make sense, or is somehow especially bad, because she (niece) is so beautiful. Like if she’d been a bit less attractive it would have been ok/ more understandable.

She was living on school grounds so maybe she didn't want the police coming around hence why she called a relative. Just speculating. She may have looked successful but was likely trapped and vulnerable with her job, home and reputation intertwined like that.

The way that "domestic" violence is minimised by the courts is shocking.
This is a recently reported case from my ares.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/gosforth-domestic-violence-thug-strangled-26166631

He tried to choke his partner - it is a proven fact that strangulation is a HUGE red flag for subsequently murdering a woman. HUGE. But he walked out of court with a suspended sentence. He now has a new partner - God help her.

His defence largely consisted of "He's got a nice flat and a good job and a new partner and he has been so upset by being publicly outed as a thug he has had to take tablets".

It's sickening.

Very perceptive pist containsnuts.
In this sort of job there are many divided loyalties, and entrapment all round.

Women are always being blamed for their own oppression @AliasGrape .

It's never the fault of men

Unfortunately your poor niece is likely to be stuck with this abusive ex for a good while - people like him seem to have endless reserves of energy to devote to just being *rseholes.

Normal people may be upset at being dumped, maybe try to change their partner's mind for a week or two, but then they move on with their lives. These men don't - and they do their best to stop others from moving on, too.

I hope she is rid of him soon. It probably won't be until he fixes on another victim.

FickleOnion I think you should start your own thread. It feels rather callous to be focusing on your decision about a school place rather than the the tragedy that has taken place.

Actually, FickleOnion's post is useful.

It shows what some people really care about. That's an issue.

I'm not sure the school would be over keen to have a parent with FickleOnion's attitude.

Breathtaking post from FickleOnion.

It is so sad that even at the end she was trying to keep the abuse secret by ringing a relative instead of the Police.
We can't be embarrassed. We need to call out DV every single time

It wouldn't have been embarrasment which preventd her calling the police, it would have been the fact that her new job and perhaps career would have been on the line if this came out, given the world we live in and prevalent attitudes to women in abusive situations, especially in that fee-paying context. I'd put very good money on the fact that the husband was sending a warning signal to her in 2016 when he rang the police: look how I can crush your career. The safeguarding responsibilities she had would have played incredibly keenly on her mind, even if that's hopelessly unfair. But that's the reality of the way school communities would think. PSHE classes will say the right things and people will make the right noises - until it gets too close to home. If this had come out and the police were called and even if the husband had been advised to leave the home, the whole situation would have made the governors at Epsom very uncomfortable. I expect she would have been edged out before long. So yes - trapped.

Not just Epsom College, but how many other schools and colleges in the UK have rifle ranges? Do many other private/independent colleges have them too? 😳

Our school has an air pistol range.

Tbh the range is a red herring as I doubt he shot them with an air rifle

He didn’t, it’s been confirmed he shot them with his own gun

Which the police knew he held on a school site. Did the school know that too. I can't help thinking if this was a state school there would be an absolute media storm about that fact, the lack of outrage is very odd.

No, I agree with other people. He had tried to get her into trouble in the past by calling the police and saying that SHE struck HIM. I imagine she was terrified that with that history he could easily make her the perpetrator and him the victim. That's one of the tactics abusive men use. I've seen it in person.

Lots of parents at our local state school own guns. It's very rural and a lot of them shoot. Obviously teachers don't live on site so it wouldn't apply anyway.

Poor woman. She was holding it all together and being mother to a 7 year old. Yes the more you look at it the more you can see she was trapped in a goldfish bowl. What a bastard of a man.

@LexMitior I agree with much of what you say.

My experience is that there is 'something missing' in our society and I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but it's something that 'steps up' when a relationship falls between a 'healthy relationship' and a woman being furtively moved to a refuge in the middle of the night (at best) or murdered by her partner (at worst).

It is a mixture of an emotional and practical void:

A united disgust by women AND men for any violence against women is still not entrenched enough.
The enduring narrative around 'men will be men' and all that bollocks, prevails.
The naive romanticizing of certain controlling behaviours is rife.
An unwillingness for people to 'get involved' is the standard.

But on a more practical level, there is a huge void that might have once been filled by extended family - or maybe the church (not sure - too much focus on forgiveness), that is a place where a woman in an abusive situation can turn before the need for Women's Aid. I'm not knocking Women's Aid who do fantastic work, but for a lot of victims (who don't consider themselves 'candidates for refuge'), there is a piece missing that might come before that. For many many women - and I'll probably be flamed for this - but especially 'professional' women, the shame and stigma of accepting your situation is completely immobilising. Deep down, you want someone to intervene, to speak up for you, to try and stop what's happening in its tracks. To call your partner out on their behaviour. You know they probably need to be a male (if we are dealing with a misogynist which we probably are) but you don't have a brother or father or friend who is up to the job. Your partner won't accept that they need any kind of therapy, so you are alone - trying to muddle along, placating, shrinking and being hollowed out by it all.

For real change to happen, society needs to get to a place where any level of domestic violence is viewed with the utter contempt by everyone. It sounds trite, but in the way 'drink driving' was 'okay' in the 80s and is completely unacceptable now - we need a society where men who behave like that carry the shame and stigma and fear of being discovered, rather than women.

Women who aren't ready for Women's Aid need something else - a more informal but solid and proactive support, and ideally that comes from friends, family and society, but if that's not an option then it has to come from somewhere/someone else - I just don't know who or what.

This is all a bit garbled but I just know that there is a piece of the solution missing.