Neighbours smashed through loft, no party wall agreement

[ophelia67]

Our neighbours have just built a loft extension. The builders have smashed through into our loft, the steel from their side is exposed on our side. They came round to "fix" it but have left a lot of damage our side.

The neighbours didn't consult us first or ask us to sign a party wall agreement. Are there going to be ramifications for them/us if either of us need to sell being that there isn't an agreement?

Surely you need to complain to the council and get someone from planning out to take a look!

Council
Planning office
Building regs department

Also, do you have legal cover on your home insurance?

This is one to get a solicitor involved with immediately, and while you are arranging one don’t agree to any work being done to bodge or hide what happened.

This can't be legal

When they 'knocked through' the party wall did debris/bricks just fall onto your ceiling? I would be pretty miffed too. Are your neighbours even aware the builders have done this?

Contact your insurance company and let them deal with it. Take photos and record dates etc when works were done. Their legal people should take this up on your (and their's) behalf.

Thanks, I'll contact building regs and see if someone will take a look. They didn't tell us they were doing work, wasn't shown plans or anything. Builders just turned up one day. I heard an almighty banging and the builders knocked on our door and asked for access to our loft. The end of their steel is poking through and they've bricked up a couple of holes but the bricks are jutting out. Our loft is still just a loft but we are considering the implications of this if we want to sell or if we decide to ever convert our loft.

Neighbours were fully aware, they came round with a bottle of wine to say sorry!!!

Not legal!

Please contact Building Control at your local council ASAP. Also be warned it may affect the structure of your roof / property and possibly chimney.

Contact insurance x

Holy crap. That's off the CF scale!!!

Solicitor would be my first stop.
Awful, poor you. 😱

Bottle of wine!!!! FFS.

is your house very old?? We have a very old house, timber frame so everything is on huge beams - next doors’ beams come through into our loft space and vice versa - each joist comes maybe 5-10cm into the room, as we have an adjoining wall with a timber structure it’s necessary as the wall supports both our house and theirs. I can see why this would be necessary but you deffo shouldn’t have holes or damage that’s not put right and you should have been made well aware of the plans and discussed it etc etc!! If it’s necessary from a structural point of view I would have expected you to have had some beams or rods there before and these have been replaced by the steel or are you saying they’re completely new???? In which case not ok!!! Xxx

This is one to get a solicitor involved with immediately

This. You really need to get do this properly. You want someone checking it's safe to start with.

Inform insurer

Take lots and lots of photos and of the damage

get a solicitor asap.

call planning / building regs

do not let their builders into your house in meantime

Do not accept any apologies or say anything they can be interpreted as giving permission to any of this

Something tells me neighbours have got cowboy builders.

They should have drafted a party wall agreement, and given you time to consider / refuse it well ahead of construction starting.

Contact that planning department of your local authority first. They may not have needed planning permission (if it's within permitted development), but planning can give you really good advice.

Buildings regs companies ("building control") are usually independent of the council, and you'll need to pay them to come out. They should be able to do a structural survey and a report, and ideally those costs will be passed on to your neighbour, along with any costs to repair any damage. If building control can't do the structural survey, find a reputable independent structural engineer.

In writing, request that your neighbour cease all works until the survey is complete. They may or may not comply, but if they continue and further damage is caused it will make it easier for you to claim damages.

As pp said, document everything: all communications going forward with the neighbour, and photos. Plus, in a letter or email, write down and send to your neighbour exactly what happened, with dates and photos, so that you have a joint record of what's happened to date. Include "we requested that all works cease on XX date, while we undertake a structural survey".

Take photos and document the state of walls/ceilings on the floor below, so that if there is structural damage and it starts to effect that floor (eg cracks or damp appears), you can prove it happened after your attic was damaged.

Do not engage with the builder. They may get nasty if works stop. If they were "good" builders they would have done this by the book; the fact that they haven't tells you all you need to know. Grey rock them (don't speak to them, nor take calls/messages), and record any interactions on your phone. Likewise with your neighbours: no matter how nice they've been to date - they won't be so nice if they have to pay to make good.

Remember: this is not your fault, and by taking the steps above you are not being unreasonable. Stay calm, get expert and independent advice, and document everything - and this will get sorted. I've been there, and it all worked out fine in the end!

That's outrageous. Cowboy builders for sure. When we converted our loft, our builders wouldn't start the work until we had all the paperwork for the party wall agreement in place.

Christ, I'd be on the phone to the council straight away. It doesn't sound like have any idea what they are doing

Well our dodgy builder neighbour (and in fact actual neighbour!) did a loft conversion (Victorian terrace) and managed to stick the steels through into our loft by about 4 inches. Balanced on a one brick section. We didn’t find out until 13 years later when we wanted to do our own loft extension and our architect saw it when investigating the depths of our dark and cobwebby loft space. No party wall agreement for their work - we were young and I was pregnant and don’t remember much about it all. Fortunately it hadn’t really caused any problems - but it could have done - but our builders had to make good and sort out and we had a few discussion with the new neighbous who had bought since the dodgy builder had moved to Corfu 😂

Absolutely not legal. A loft conversion requires planning permission which would have been publicly displayed and a party wall agreement to be completed prior to works starting, contact council & solicitor.

So if you want to put a steel in for your own dormer, you'll want it in the same place. For this reason they are meant to only put the steel 1/2 way through the shared supporting wall. If it's too far through you can't then do the same at a later date.

I'd be insisting on an inspection from a surveyor. They need to pay for that.

It is also a fire risk as there will be gaps.
The neighbours steel beam should only rest on the outer skin of a cavity wall

How rude. I would be fuming.

Loft conversions don't always need planning permission. It depends on the type of conversion and the council. A small dormer often doesn't require permission.

However, the fact that the builders have done this and the neighbours seem unaware of the necessity of a party wall agreement raises red flags about what else they may be cavalier about. They could end up seriously damaging your property.

OP you need legal advice asap!

Why on earth did you let them in?

I'd have called the council and a lawyer right away.

Insurers should be your first port of call, not building regs.
Have you got legal cover on your home insurance? They may be able to support.