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Original poster

Neighbours smashed through loft, no party wall agreement

184 replies

ophelia67 · 27/01/2023 11:34

Our neighbours have just built a loft extension. The builders have smashed through into our loft, the steel from their side is exposed on our side. They came round to "fix" it but have left a lot of damage our side.

The neighbours didn't consult us first or ask us to sign a party wall agreement. Are there going to be ramifications for them/us if either of us need to sell being that there isn't an agreement?

OP posts:
ARoughRide · 27/01/2023 13:55

builders knocked on our door and asked for access to our loft

Did you ask them what they were doing before you agreed?

wonkylegs · 27/01/2023 13:57

I don't let my clients start work without the right paperwork and it's a big part of why people employ me.
Unfortunately there is no legislation in the U.K. that you need a qualified professional to be involved in the process for building works so people often don't realise that there is other legislation that applies, outside of planning and building regulations.

WinterDeWinter · 27/01/2023 14:01

Patchworksack · 27/01/2023 12:51

We had a similar situation, our neighbour knocked down a shared single story extension exposing our roof space to the air. Luckily we have a friend who is a surveyor who came straight round and read then the riot act. They have broken the law by not having a party wall agreement. So, all work stops immediately until the correct paperwork is in place. You are automatically in dispute with them because they failed to get an agreement which means you need a surveyor acting for each side and possibly a structural engineer for each side. If the surveyors can’t agree they a third adjudicator is also required. The offending neighbours pay all fees for both sides, to complete the work to the required standards and damages to you which will be agreed by the surveyors. In our case it took about 6 months to sort out and cost them £6k plus endless hassle. It’s likel they have a cowboy builder and no building regs or they would have been told they needed a party wall agreement in the first place (a mutually agreed one uses one surveyor and costs about £1k with everything agreed before work commences).
Tell them to stop all work immediately, contact a chartered surveyor and building regs at the council.
So sorry - it is a massive headache you do not need!

This is the post to take note of OP - you are now in dispute and they must immediately down tools until your respective surveyors, both of which must be paid for by neighbour, agree on restitution.

HangerLaneGyratorySystem · 27/01/2023 14:02

Good advise from @wonkylegs but please tell us why you let their builders in and what you said about the bottle of wine business? From what you've written it sounds like you simply let them get on with it and accepted the wine and that was that? Hopefully that's just the way you've written it, and it wasn't really like that ... Hmm

Jellycats4life · 27/01/2023 14:03

@Patchworksack seems to be the person who knows what they’re talking about here.

With hindsight you shouldn’t have let the builders bodge your side of the loft but I can understand that you were totally blindsided by what happened and didn’t know your rights. I’m sure I would have done the same.

The bottle of wine though… wow.

HangerLaneGyratorySystem · 27/01/2023 14:04

BTW you can get a free initial consultation on this through the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, I've used this before and its great:

www.ricsfirms.com/helplines/

Then at least you'd know what the first thing is that you need to do.

Patchworksack · 27/01/2023 14:05

Jellycats4life · 27/01/2023 14:03

@Patchworksack seems to be the person who knows what they’re talking about here.

With hindsight you shouldn’t have let the builders bodge your side of the loft but I can understand that you were totally blindsided by what happened and didn’t know your rights. I’m sure I would have done the same.

The bottle of wine though… wow.

Voice of bitter experience, unfortunately. 😔

Patchworksack · 27/01/2023 14:07

Knobhead neighbour (must stop calling him that in front of the children) also thought a bottle of wine was suitable apology when his cowboys filled our house with carbon monoxide by running a petrol driven hammer plate inside the house.

Everyonehasavoice · 27/01/2023 14:11

Did you agree they could go ahead without a Party Wall Awards, ie did they show you what they were doing etc.

They should have done a PWA,
Also half of the party wall is yours. The title runs down the middle so they have damaged your property.
Also, how have they repaired it. Has it been fire proofed.

  • This could be an issue if you want to sell
  • You need to see the details of what they have done to the party wall
  • You need to get a surveyor/ architect to check that it complies with building regs
  • building control is farmed out these days to individual companies and no longer part of the council body, so it can be really difficult to find out if building control have approved the detail
  • check online for local companies and see if they are dealing with the project then get a copy of the approval as you may need it to sell the property
-
Happygone · 27/01/2023 14:11

A bottle of wine? Oh that's okay then. Not.

DillDanding · 27/01/2023 14:27

Building Control will be interested if they are converting a loft without an application as that is a contravention of the regs. Many lofts do not require planning permission.

if they have an application, damage sustained to a party wall is a civil matter between the 2 parties and the reason why you should have a party wall agreement.

NewNovember · 27/01/2023 14:29

@WheresMyAlex most loft conversions don't need planning permission.

ArrrMeHearties · 27/01/2023 14:48

Pfft as if a bottle of wine is going to make up for having a great big hole in your loft

Sublimeursula · 27/01/2023 14:48

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Okaaaay · 27/01/2023 15:18

You don’t need a party wall to sell, but they will need building regs approval to do so. But more to the point, they could have structurally impacted your home. It’s a legal issue and something you will probably need a structural engineer to look at to understand the damage.

Original poster
ophelia67 · 27/01/2023 15:23

I was at home alone with baby DS (somehow sleeping through all the banging/drilling) and toddler DD when they knocked. I was really caught off guard and in hindsight I shouldn't have let them in but I did and obviously wish I hadn't now. It was after that I started thinking "why do they need to be in MY loft?!". I phoned DH and he came home and went up to see what they were doing. He got neighbour round and took him up there to see and neighbour said they fucked up and the bottle of wine was brought round later on that day.

I remember neighbour telling DH he had something for him to sign but it was never produced. They definitely had planning as when the work started me and DH looked on the council website to see the plans, since neighbours hadn't shown us!

To be honest I feel really naive, I didn't even think about safety implications until posts on this thread. I was just thinking of the selling side and how it would impact that. DH and FIL are speaking to solicitor now.

OP posts:
Sublimeursula · 27/01/2023 15:24

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Sublimeursula · 27/01/2023 15:25

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Minfilia · 27/01/2023 15:27

It’s good your DH is speaking to a solicitor.

But so not sign anything that the neighbours or builders try and give you!

Sublimeursula · 27/01/2023 15:27

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Everyonehasavoice · 27/01/2023 15:28

NewNovember · 27/01/2023 14:29

@WheresMyAlex most loft conversions don't need planning permission.

But they all need building regs

BruceAndNosh · 27/01/2023 15:31

The builders might be cowboys, but it was up to CFNeighbour to get Party wall agreement before starting work. CFN is the one who employed BodgeItBuilders

AnneElliott · 27/01/2023 15:35

I'd definitely be speaking to whomever they have got doing their building regs (although something tells me they might not have bothered).

The council will know who's put in the initial notice for the work (if they have done so) and if not, the council will come out and have a look.

The steel sounds like the wrong size if it's poking through your side? I'm not an expert but H is building control and I've been on many a site with him as he used to do drawings via his own company.

Take loads of photos and don't let their builders 'fix' anything!

Everyonehasavoice · 27/01/2023 15:36

The deed has been done now, so I know my comment is pointless
But
If someone does work without a Party Wall Award you can get a PW injunction to stop the work.
The cost will be the neighbours, only you’ll have to take them to court to get it back.
Our legal system is very messy

Everyonehasavoice · 27/01/2023 15:38

AnneElliott · 27/01/2023 15:35

I'd definitely be speaking to whomever they have got doing their building regs (although something tells me they might not have bothered).

The council will know who's put in the initial notice for the work (if they have done so) and if not, the council will come out and have a look.

The steel sounds like the wrong size if it's poking through your side? I'm not an expert but H is building control and I've been on many a site with him as he used to do drawings via his own company.

Take loads of photos and don't let their builders 'fix' anything!

The council no longer have anything to do with building regs.
Its all farmed out now to individual companies, OP will have to do a ring around to see if it’s on anyones books.