Having kids is awesome… but I really don’t care if you don’t want to have them!

[SockTurtleMoop]

This is just a rant. Getting something off my chest.

I’m mid 30s and the majority of my friends have now got kids but a handful haven’t. This handful moan a fair amount about ‘society’s pressure to have kids’ and how awful it is and how they get asked all the time and post a lot of things on social media about HOW ITS A VALID CHOICE NOT TO HAVE KIDS THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Greg James off of the radio has written some blog post about how he doesn’t know whether he wants kids but he wishes people would stop asking him. And loads of my childless acquaintances have shared it with clapping emojis.

But I can’t work out who is asking them if they’re having kids. Outside of their nannas. Everyone in my generation knows you don’t talk about these things. A couple of people at work asked me if I wanted children (before I did), but that was usually when I was chatting to them about theirs. Not an invasive inquisition. No one I know cares if other people don’t have kids. I’m really curious how often they actually get asked.

On the flip side, they’re so rude about the assumptions they’ve made about being a parent. There are constant comments about how they’d prefer to have money and free time and no responsibilities. There’s a suggestion that people with kids are miserable all the time.

I’ve got three small children. It’s hard work. But they’re bloody hilarious. When they’re babies it’s sort of like being in charge of some wild animals. But eventually they really do become amazing company. They’re such fun. Rare days when it’s just me and my husband are fine. We enjoy each other’s company and we get to actually converse. But the kids come back and it’s silliness and games and laughter and life feels significantly less serious and I’m distracted from “grown up things”. Life takes a slower pace and I love it.

Anyone else relate to this at all?! Or is the consensus that actually yes society is still obsessed with making sure everyone reproduces as quickly as humanly possible and those who don’t have children are letting the side down?

I know a few people who don’t want children. Respect to them.

I sometimes wished I never had kids, but I was so broody I felt like I needed them.

I adore my kids though but I don’t care if someone else doesn’t want to have them.

I don’t care if my kids don’t have kids

@Planta has just written exactly what I was about to! People do ask, all the bloody time as soon as you get married! And if you say no they want a full explanation as to why (and then imply you will change your mind anyway).

It would be seen as rude and inappropriate to ask people to justify having children so I have never understood why people expect you to explain why you don’t.

i’ve just been reminded by DH of a woman at a wedding who said to us “it must be so weird to have absolutely no real purpose in life”.

Yes! I'm sick of hearing about it TBH, no one gives a fig if you have them or not!

I’m mid 30’s and totally get this OP. From a couple of specific childfree bu choice people in my life. Constantly complaining about people asking them if they want kids, but they themselves being the ones to bring it up in social situations when I’ve been there. Also constant, constant digs about how unhappy we must be with kids…once they came round to my house - it was about 8.30 and we were eating dinner ‘oh I don’t know how you manage it with kids’ insinuating that we shouldn’t be up having a drink at that ungodly hour. Constant pointing out how much they hate kids, on New Year’s Eve ‘oh I assume you won’t be doing anything cos of the kids’ etc etc. it’s like they don’t want kids (fine) but kind of want us to also agree with them that it’s so much better not to have them IYSWIM? Like trying to justify their choice? And I don’t buy the whole ‘but they need to justify it as society is so against childfree people’ as I don’t think it is, in fact it’s very normal these days to not want kids I think, and there are other groups who are discriminated against more, E.g families with loads of kids, single parents etc

I think it’s true OP that no-one really loses sleep over whether or not someone else decides to have kids.

I didn’t start a family until 38, but don’t remember anyone ever making me feel like I was wrong not to have them. I was single I suppose 🤷‍♀️

i do think it’s often used as a conversation starter- parents love talking about their kids. I do think lots of people are over sensitive about this. Obviously, if you’re struggling to conceive the it’s awful, but I sometimes think anyone under 30 being asked about this needs to chill out a bit.

People do ask, all the bloody time as soon as you get married!
I was married about five years before I got pregnant with my first. I think a couple colleagues asked me (as per my earlier comment, in casual conversation) but outside of that I don’t think anyone did. No random family members, not the hairdresser, not friends. Maybe you just come across more maternal than me!

Also don’t get asked a lot if I have kids @Planta - started a new job recently and actually wanted it to come up a bit as wanted my colleagues to have warning that I may be scuttling off for nativities and the like. But no one really asked. Outside of that I’m probably not around enough strangers to test it in other scenarios though.

@Yahyahs22 being asked if you want children can be quite difficult for some people. When we were going through IVF I remember being asked at work the day after finding out another cycle had failed. It was so painful and difficult to answer. It’s almost like asking an overweight person if they want to lose weight. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. But it’s private and personal and might be difficult for some people to answer so it’s better not to make assumptions.

Before I accidentally had my son (I did not want children. Not ever. Not at all) I was asked fucking constantly if I was going to have them. By my inlaws, distant inlaws, male friends, men and women I worked with, random older people, but worst of all, were my friends with kids who thought having kids was ‘awesome’. They wanted me to join the club they seemed to think they alone had founded. And they were irritating as fuck.

Now I’ve had one, they’re all off again asking if I’m going to have any more, telling me I’m cruel to only have one, he’ll be spoiled, etc.

Anyone planning on sticking their nose into another woman’s plans for her uterus, shut the fuck up.

@Fleabigg genuinely… who was asking you? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone ever be asked this question (and I don’t live in a cave) so I’m genuinely curious.

(But also please don’t tell me I’m unreasonable for having a ranty opinion on something, that’s not cool, everyone’s allowed to get stuff of their chest, it’s perfectly reasonable for me to be fed up of hearing how horrific children are just as it would have been reasonable for you to be annoyed at being asked about your childcare plans.)

My bad, I read the board wrong and thought this was AIBU rather than chat. Back at you though - who is telling you children are horrific in such volumes for you to be “fed up” of it? I don’t hear that, except jokily from other parents, although obviously that doesn’t mean it’s not your experience.

Colleagues and extended family were the main culprits. People I’d just been introduced to. Unimaginative people making small talk. My actual friends would never have been so insensitive. Societal pressure is more insidious but could be in the form of adverts, stuff like Christmas is just for children, families only counting as families once they have children in them, story after story of celebs with babies saying how they’d made their lives complete and they now knew their entire existence before children was pointless and shallow, etc.

it’s like they don’t want kids (fine) but kind of want us to also agree with them that it’s so much better not to have them IYSWIM? Like trying to justify their choice? Yes! @Iunderstandit this really resonates. Gosh maybe that’s why I’m being such a sensitive sally about this… Greg James appears to have really rubbed me up the wrong way haha.

@SockTurtleMoop i was married a couple of years before kids came along and absolutely no-one asked me, apart from my Dad made a little comment once and then immediately tried to change the subject like he was embarrassed he asked 😂. I don’t know where all these people are who ask. Maybe I didn’t look maternal either haha

The only place I really hear people getting arsey about their reasons for not having children is on MN. It seems to be a very touchy subject for some.

I personally don’t give a crap whether someone has kids or not and in my group of 8 girlfriends 5 if us including myself have them and 3 don’t and never will.

Theyve talked about their reasons for not having them in the past but only when it came up in conversation when we were younger, it’s certainly not something any of us talk about now we’re older and when we’re all together we don’t tend to talk much about the children as we want to talk about more interesting things!

I think people asking the question are generally just being polite/making conversation and not trying to be smug or annoying - it’s just something to talk about.

It’s the shoving down the throat.. ‘ahh this is why I’m soooo glad I don’t have children’…tinkly laugh…<insert materialistic ideal> I can buy myself what I want/holiday where I want etc

what does that have to do with having children?

who says they dont getsked

i used to get asked all the time-its tiresome i dont wan them-if someone else doesnt want a pet i dont go on at them

you dont know whats going on in someones life

I don’t think anyone has ever asked me if I was going to have kids, maybe I made it clear I wasn’t and the only people I have discussed the reason why we don’t have kids are childless friends and maybe colleagues. Who cares, I would never ask anyone if they hope to reproduce, I don’t think it interests me.

I agree with you OP.

Personally, I didn’t want children AT ALL until I was 35 (and then it was all I could think about). I was married at 31. The odd person asked, I said “no, I have other things I’d rather do”, and that was the end of it. I never felt any pressure, nobody went on at me, I just never felt this so-called “societal pressure”. Maybe it was there and I didn’t feel it, or maybe it wasn’t there in the society I keep. Who knows.

I’ve got a good mix of women in my life. Married or not; working or not; my age and older (admittedly now no young ones bar my own DD and her friends); child free or up to 5 of them; working or not; all the things.

How old were you when you had your first? I also don't remember ever getting asked - and I would remember, because it was a very painful subject in the two years where I struggled to stay pregnant before having DS1 - but I was just turned 31 when I had my first, which was quite young in my social circles. I'm now 36 and I think it's very different for my friends who don't have children now - I think just those few years makes a big difference in how often you're asked. My impression/understanding that, like being single, the attitudes - and intrusiveness - of other people to you not having children change hugely across your 30s.

Unfortunately there is a lot of pressure, comments from family, friends, strangers on the internet, work colleagues etc. Women's medical decisions are being refused because they could change their mind or their future partner may want kids.
Couples are being told they can't be a family because they don't have kids etc.
I can understand that as someone with kids maybe it isn't a big deal but to constantly be getting questions to the point a doctor won't take medical decisions seriously shows its still a big problem in society.
It's also very relevant to everything from climate change, capitalism and the economy so it's a very big discussion at the moment.

People do ask. They do.

They also say shitty things like 'you don't know what love/tiredness/responsibility is unless you have kids'. It's seen as a badge of honour and proof you're a real worthy human.

I think most people who complain about this overestimate others’ interest in them and their choices when in actual fact lots of people just aren’t great at small talk (especially but not exclusively when there’s alcohol involved).

I think you're being slighty unreasonable, because the fact is that given the conventional nature of the path you've chosen in life, you won't be privy to a lot of the pressures, comments, questions, etc. that perhaps your friends are experiencing. It is hard for people to recognise their own bubble as a bubble, usually.

There is a standard narrative in society that you do X, then Y, then Z - find a partner, get married, have a kid, have another, have another...[stay married, otherwise youre relationship was a failure]...retire, die. If you're someone who deviates from that in some way, usually you will experience a level of judgement, to a greater or lesser extent, from people who haven't, because they are so heavily bought-in to there only being this one way to live and be happy and fulfilled.

So much of society is set-up on the assumption that you will follow this one path, surely you can see how that becomes tiring after a while.

I've been asked times since the start of the new year: 1 neighbour, 1 lady walking her dog and a work colleague. I dont get offended, but I do hate the follow up "why?" when I say it's not for me. Always see an increase around the festive season so thats more often the usual. I just wish that I wasn't asked to validate my choice when I would never do the same to the person asking.
Most family members and friends know my stance by now so it's not as much as it used to be.

People who intend to live childfree are taking the path less travelled. It doesn't fit in with what people consider the normal order of things. If you watch a TV series and a couple get together, first it's when will they get married and then it's having a baby. That's a consistent narrative across millions of stories. Where's the happy ending otherwise?

It's getting better in terms of being able to choose the lifestyle you want. The country's getting less religious and more tolerant overall. But I don't find it surprising that childfree people feel a bit on edge and often defensive, which can turn into (often accidentally) judging parents for their choice. Meanwhile some parents find it hard to believe others can live without the joy of parenthood. I can see where tensions might arise.

I guess ultimately it needs to become akin to a conversation about golf. Some people like golf, some people hate it. It's OK to say you don't like golf or that you absolutely love golf. We're all different.

*your relattionship, goodness me