Would you choose Doctor Assisted Suicide for yourself?

[MooseBreath]

Hypothetically, would you wish to sign a waiver in early stages of dementia or an illness that would one day severely reduce cognitive function? Or what circumstances would you want Doctor Assisted Suicide, if any?

I was thinking about it and I would. I don't want to live in a world without recognising my loved ones or where I cannot remember to do basic things like go to the toilet, wash myself, or eat. At that stage, for me, quality of life would be too far gone.

Maybe signing early on with very clear boundaries on what I was able to do and understand. Kind of like in the book "Still Alice".

Inspired by the thread on euthanasia and MAiD. Not here to start a bunfight, not here to discuss whether or not euthanasia should be legal, not here to discuss the ramifications of MAiD.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on the matter, purely about themselves.

I think people should be capable of giving consent on the day. I think advance directives are unsafe because people change their minds.

I've spent too much time visiting care homes and dementia wards to want to just exist like that.

I've also watched a friend die months later from a stroke that quite frankly she'd have been better not surviving. I've seen people bed bound in their 50s from strokes, barely able to communicate, and unable to even feed themselves but looking at many years of empty life ahead of them.

If I've capacity I would refuse treatment but I'm more scared of being kept alive when I don't want to be.

I envisage signing a very detailed document stating a preferably exhaustive list of stipulations about what should happen in any given situation where I would want to die with a doctor's assistance. This would likely need to be amended and consent given annually.
Some examples of stipulations, and there would need to be a threshold of a minimum number of stipulations being met, and the stipulations would need to be deemed permanent by a medical professional.
For example:
No longer able to recognize my husband by voice or appearance.
No longer able to recognize my children by voice or appearance.
No longer able to recall my own first name, surname, and maiden name.
No longer able to use a toilet without assistance.
No longer able to clean myself without assistance.
No longer able to eat or drink without assistance.
No longer able to get out of bed without assistance.
No longer able to communicate needs or wants.
No longer able to breathe without medical intervention.
Comatose for over 30 days.
No brain activity.
Etc.

Yes, it should be my decision to end my life when I choose. No one should have to witness a loved one begging to die and be unable to help to alleviate their suffering.

Definitely yes, and I've said as much to my DD.

My late DH always said: If my brain gets fucked, just push me off a cliff. As it happens, there's one at the bottom of the road. When I found him after he'd had what turned out to be a cerebral aneurysm and stroke, I prayed he would get off lightly or die. He died as it turned out, within a couple of hours. I was glad he didn't suffer.

Theoretically I would absolutely say yes. However the actual final act would give me pause for thought as I'm unsure how it would work.

DS is an only child so the burden would likely be on him to be with me "at the end". The idea of sitting next to a loved one and watching a Dr end their life seems utterly devastating to me, and I would never want my only child to feel any obligation to do that for me. OTOH, how would he feel if he wasn't there while I was being "done"?

I guess once it became more widespread feelings would change, but I would want to be absolutely sure before I put DS through that.

Yes definitely

If it was legal & I got to say 75 & knew my body & mind were giving up on me I would be off like a shot. Exfil is 83, has bowel bone, prostate & bladder cancer, he has just been sent home to die, I feel sorry for exh, ds & the family that they are having to sit & watch him deteriorate. Exmil died 2 years ago & exfil has said all he wants to do is to be with her, he has no quality of life, if that was me & I had a choice I would want it.

I’m young but I’ve got terminal cancer and am terrified of an agonising decline with not enough care and pain relief; a traumatic death that will hurt my loved ones. I’d do this in a heartbeat.

I’m hopeful about the progress of Scotland’s bill, among others, meaning that anyone who wants it doesn’t have to take a trip to Switzerland before they are ready

mowly77 I feel for you, if the law gets passed I hope it means that anyone choosing assisted suicide is able to do it at a time & place of their choosing. Knowing that it is an option could help some people live longer because they know it is there as an option if they really can't carry on.

At the moment Dignitas is the only option for British people - and for citizens of all countries where assisted dying is illegal.
It is expensive to go there so its unfair and discriminatory as it’s only available to the well-off.

I have an elderly relative who is descending into dementia and their eyesight is going and it's awful but I find myself hoping something happens to just end their life quickly and as painlessly as possible as there is just nothing good in another few years for them. At the moment they're not that aware of the dementia or in distress but it's all downhill from here. 😔

This is what I would like for myself

Yes. I watched my mother die of dementia and wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I had to make the decision whether to have her intubated or slip away gently. I want to make that decision myself long before it gets to that stage, thank you very much. I don’t want to place that burden on my loved ones.

100% yes

My sister died from cancer (primary melanoma) in 1991. 6 months before she died she asked me if I would stay with her whilst she took an overdose in order to end her life, at a time she deemed right (she had this planned for a while and already had the necessary medication). I agreed I would, I don't regret that agreement and, despite fear of the potential repercussions, I would have done so. Luckily it didn't quite come to that. I managed to take her home for the weekend when she was clearly becoming weaker and we agreed that I would do the same in a fortnight and I would assist her. She died the intervening weekend, in hospital and kept pain free. Her biggest fear was losing her rational mind, then pain and then physical ability.

I was totally in favour before that but even more so after.

My kids both know what I want (both in their 40s). I have completed a living will and an advanced care directive. I update annually, (no changes just reconfirming).

I think, bearing in mind that, on MN at least, 95% appear to be in favour it should be an opt out not opt in. I think the national estimate is at least 80%.

So everyone should be encouraged by the government and national charities to complete living wills and update them regularly. This could easily negate the 'pressure from relatives etc'.

People who expressed from a relatively young age that they wanted it are not being pressured (and why would they change their mind in dementia). People that expressed from a relatively young age that they didn't want it - then it would have to be possible for them to change their minds BUT not in dementia or whatever reason they previously give for not wanting to change it.

I am passionate about this. I am 68, still fit and healthy at the moment. BUT I would end it tomorrow rather than continue to exist beyond a point where I am unable to live independently for physical or mental reasons.

Actually I would. Yes, I definitely would

Whilst it isn't great that some people die before they are ready (isn't that true of many people anyway)

People being forced to suffer unnecessarily to me is far far worse than someone who will probably die very soon and is not living what 'most' would consider a 'fulfilling' (for want of a better word) being helped painlessly to exit this life.

I'm atheist (and think that when we're gone, we're gone) but, if someone has a faith in a better afterlife, why would they worry if it happened without their consent. I do not believe it should happen without consent but in the case of coercion what GOD would judge the coerced person?

Yes definitely, I wouldn’t want my family to take care of me in that condition, I saw my grandad in the last stages of dementia and it’s not something I’ll forget. I wouldn’t put that burden on family.

Yep, after seeing how mil is now with dementia, dh and I have both said we never want to live like that.

I find it very hard to know. I can see that there are obvious situations where the answer is yes - where you know for sure a person isn't there any more, or they know what has happened to them and they feel total despair/horror at the idea of continuing.

But ... I nursed my grandmother when she had brain cancer. It was quite advanced when diagnosed. She was in her 80s and up to that point she had still been working. She wasn't ready. A very unsympathetic doctor gave her the news that it was terminal, and it crushed her. She felt the only option was to have treatment, and it was absolutely inhumane. She was told she might live nine months or so, and it was weeks. At the end it was horrible. You could argue it'd have been better if she could have stopped, after that diagnostic appointment, and chosen to go. I certainly believe her last weeks would have been better had her doctor had the courage to suggest she shouldn't seek treatment (which was painful and traumatic). But, I think it would have been an unimaginable horror for her if her diagnosis had been a pathway to doctor assisted suicide.

I know (because we'd talked about it) that my grandmother thought losing your mind was unimaginably awful and you'd do anything to avoid it. She thought she'd want to die. She thought she'd be unrecognisable and robbed of her dignity. But it was much more complicated than that. She was there and not there. I don't think dementia etc. are as binary as this law would need them to be.

If I had the money I would definitely do it on the basis of awful life destroying mental health issues.

Anyone got any spare cash!????

@NannyGythaOgg

I think, bearing in mind that, on MN at least, 95% appear to be in favour it should be an opt out not opt in.

Do you mean that everyone should be presumed to want assisted dying unless they opt out?

How does this square with your later statement that 'I do not believe it should happen without consent'?

This is a very long way from people saying, 'this is what I would want for myself and it doesn't affect anyone else.'

In countries where assisted dying is legal only a tiny minority of people opt for it. E.g. in Oregon, which has been held up as a good example, 2-300 assisted deaths out of around 45,000 total deaths in 2021.

People do change their mind and any law must allow for that:

In this survey, a small proportion of terminally ill patients seriously considered euthanasia or PAS for themselves. Over a few months, half the patients changed their minds.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/193281

I think the national estimate is at least 80%.

This figure needs breaking down. It comes from a survey that showed 49% of respondents strongly supported the following (really quite restrictive) proposal and 35% somewhat supported it:

A proposed new law would allow terminally ill adults the option of assisted dying. This would mean being provided with life-ending medication, to take themselves, if two doctors were satisfied they met all of the safeguards. They would need to be of sound mind, be terminally ill and have 6 months or less to live, and a High Court judge would have to be satisfied that they had made a voluntary, clear and settled decision to end their life, with time to consider all other options.

yonderconsulting.com/poll/dignity-in-dying/

I am also an atheist and have no idea why you are talking about god and the afterlife. I would, however, expect the ECtHR to judge very harshly any government that allowed its citizens to be coerced into assisted death with the kind of slapdash laws that you seem to be proposing.

Having watch my dad last year 100%. The suffering, pain, fear & medical delirium was horrendous for us & him.

We begged the staff to end it for him. They obviously couldn’t & tried to make him comfortable- the last 2 months - I wouldn’t wish on my last enemy. It’s inhumane.

I wouldn’t let my dog suffer the way he did.

I’ve already told my family I’m going to dignitas or I’ll end it myself.

My husband died from cancer. I nursed him at home to the end. I have no one that could look after and care for me in the same way. I just hope that Assisted dying becomes available to me when I can no longer look after myself.

I did exactly the same and it worries me a lot that there's no one to do the same for me. Not just the care at home, but the advocating with doctors and other professionals, the constant battles to get the equipment, pain relief and care he needed.

That said, despite how awful things were for him, he never wanted to end life prematurely. He was bedbound for 6 months but he still found pleasure in life and I think the will to live is strong. As a young man he would have said shoot me if I get like that, but when the time came, some life was better than none.

NewFriday "it worries me a lot that there's no one to do the same for me. Not just the care at home, but the advocating with doctors and other professionals, the constant battles to get the equipment, pain relief and care he needed"

Yes indeed. My husband also would never have considered it. Was adamantly against any form of suicide as cowardly (his view).

Though perhaps if he had been alone and dependent on care from people who didn't love him he may have had a different view.

Yes, this is my concern too. I'm happy that both my parents were able to die at home in a safe and controlled environment. Dad died quickly but had been almost blind and badly deaf, so needed a lot of support and I nursed Mum through cancer. But when my turn comes, I have no partner, siblings or children. Many of my relatives have lived into their 90s with bad dementia. I hope something changes between now and losing my capacity.