Would you choose Doctor Assisted Suicide for yourself?

[MooseBreath]

Hypothetically, would you wish to sign a waiver in early stages of dementia or an illness that would one day severely reduce cognitive function? Or what circumstances would you want Doctor Assisted Suicide, if any?

I was thinking about it and I would. I don't want to live in a world without recognising my loved ones or where I cannot remember to do basic things like go to the toilet, wash myself, or eat. At that stage, for me, quality of life would be too far gone.

Maybe signing early on with very clear boundaries on what I was able to do and understand. Kind of like in the book "Still Alice".

Inspired by the thread on euthanasia and MAiD. Not here to start a bunfight, not here to discuss whether or not euthanasia should be legal, not here to discuss the ramifications of MAiD.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on the matter, purely about themselves.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat the colostomy bag was told to me by my mum about her own mother.
That she thought that a colostomy bag was so awful that it would make her life not worth living. That she would loose all dignity. So in some ways her dying was a ‘blessing’ because it would have been so awful if she had survived.

Not clutching at straw but talking from experience. 😢😢

Fine, so you don't think it's a good idea, that's a perfectly valid opinion.

Why on Earth have been deleted for asking a simple question? 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Most people support assisted dying; it's not as controversial as the reluctance to allow it would have you believe - so if most want it what's the problem? I don't understand. For those that don't want it, don't sign up for it.

The problem is deciding what an assisted dying law should look like, who should be eligible and what safeguards we should have.

Assisted dying is not a simple yes/no choice. We will almost undoubtedly get an assisted dying law in the next few years and we have to get it right.

If we get it wrong it won't help the people it's intended to help and/or people will be deliberately killed when they did not want to die (which would be state murder - this is a huge deal).

Thinking about OP's question, it would be safer to assist people to end their lives shortly after diagnosis of dementia or other progressive cognitive conditions, while they still have capacity to consent on the day, than to allow advance directives.

The payoff is that people would miss out on quite a few years of life, some of which they might even have enjoyed.

There are no easy answers.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat im not actually actively against it.

But I’m thinking it’s no where near as simple as most posters seem to think.
Im thinking there is a need of boundaries and limits to avoid assisted dying to be used for other reasons than the clear wish of the person.
And I’m thinking that the wish to live is very strong and much fewer people would willingly take the steps than we think. Esp in the case described by the OP - loss of cognitive function

because no one should ever die to make their relatives more comfortable.

Why shouldn’t they, if that’s what they want? I don’t want to be a burden on my children and I also want to be able to leave them some money rather than it all go in care home fees.

People should stop talking about their pets in a discussion about human rights, although I understand the sentiment.

100% yes.

If the law allowed you what you wanted but also meant some other people were coerced into dying, would you still die contented?

If the law allowed you what you wanted but also meant some other people were coerced into dying, would you still die contented?

I think if I was in absolute agony with no quality of life at all then altruism probably wouldn’t be my main concern.
So you think that assisted dying should never be permitted as some people might be coerced into it?

Yes. I've seen enough suffering to know that this absolutely should be legal. DH's granny lived in a sort of living dead state for 20 years. It's was appalling. She was blind, deaf, incontinent, couldn't talk apart from noises, didn't recognise any family, bed bound etc. My MIL, who was very kind, used to really want her mum to die. Because she was in such a bad state. She was relieved when she did die eventually.

Yes, after watching my mother suffer horribly with the worst cancer symptoms you can imagine and begging to die - for 4 weeks - I would

I don't want this option to be about social care and the NHS because I don't want those systems to be so terrible that death is the only sensible, cost-effective alternative.

You see this as a "'let's fix the NHS and social care first' dilution" argument.

I see this as basic safeguarding.

Every time someone pops up saying, 'Yay! this will solve the NHS and social care crisis!' I see another big red flag waving.

Any law we pass is not just about you it's about everybody.

Any law we pass is not just about you it's about everybody.

LangClegs so you think assisted dying should not be permitted because some people don’t want it. One could just as well say it should be permitted because some people do want it.
Maybe there should be a referendum.

Do you think Dignitas should be closed down in case some patients go there under coercion?

Would the government be involved - in what way do you mean?

Thank you for your honesty.

No, I think we need good assisted dying laws with adequate safeguards for everyone.

Nobody who is in absolute agony with no quality of life should be expected to give a shit about the human rights of anyone else. I wouldn't, I'd just use whatever law we had to end my life asap in those circumstances, regardless of who else I shat on.

That would't make it right.

But surely the point of an advance directive is that while I still have capacity ( now) I make a legally binding directive that when I lack capacity ( ie have dementia) I don’t want to be kept alive. Once I have dementia I’d be deemed incapable of making the decision. But I’d rather risk wanting to change my mind later and not being able to than risk living with dementia and not wanting to be alive.

and no advances in social care are going to make double incontinence and not knowing my own name any more attractive.

You have twice told me 'so you think'.

No I don't think any of your fabricated notions. HTH.

No, I think we need good assisted dying laws with adequate safeguards for everyone.

I think everyone thinks there should be safeguards. What do you think ‘adequate safeguards’ should be?

They were completely involved when everyone with a learning disability got a blanket DNR during covid.

Why would they not be involved in fulfilling advance directives during the next crisis?

I mean who is deciding on which date it happens after I sign this?

A family member or a doctor?

It’s a bit abstract, what is the process you envisage

100% yes. My mum died in august after 18 months of suffering with dementia until she couldnt move or speak anymore, it was what she dreaded and it broke my heart. If i could avoid that i most certainly would.

For a start, and in relation to OP's question, I think people should be capable of giving consent on the day. I think advance directives are unsafe because people change their minds.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/193281

For those with dementia and other degenerative cognitive conditions this means that a choice for assisted dying would need to be made in the early days after diagnosis. They would have to die while they were still able to give consent and this may be sooner than they would otherwise want.

Most assisted dying laws around the world stipulate being within 6 months of death. Those that don't are throwing up all sorts of 'slippery slope' type problems.

I don't know how we get this right but we have to get past yes/no polarised debate on this.

Who knows?

What process do you envisage?