Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

You say there is just one qualified nurse doing the drugs rounds for 30-34 patients etc. so why can’t the others wash patients? What are they doing? Care assistants, student nurses etc.

@Swissmountains
The student nurse would be with the qualified nurse doing the medication round. Otherwise they aren't learning anything, other than how to wash patients.

No my mum wasn't washed at all! In fact they didn't even seem to monitor what she was eating. Then she went to a hospice and the level of care went up by a 1000 percent.

Ok, so I get that in an ideal world, all our nurses would be angels and there would be no one on a waiting list. Except, there is. It is in crisis.

According to one of my overseas relatives, where the healthcare is better than here, the family have always been expected to help out at the hospital with their relative. I take it that means help with feeding and personal care.

If my dad was in the hospital, I'd like to think that I would be very happy to wash, shave and feed him. I'd get my siblings and their partners to help. I don't think I would be giving out to the nurses. As for someone upthread saying it is humiliating. I think my dad would prefer me to some stranger, and I'd prefer to do it than leave him in a mess. I'd do it willingly.

How about taking some responsibility for our own relatives?

@embolass

The first time he said he didn't have anything with him, I only just made visiting hours because I was with my mum in A&E with pneumonia and it was NYD and everything was closed. Was told we wuld have to supply, fine. I messaged my siblings to ask if someone could bring it next day, turns out he did have it with him. No one checked the next 3 days despite me asking family and nurses.

I go day 4, still not done, I ask for water and a bowl, dad says he would rather do it himself and was able to(I shouldn't have believed him).

Again no body then checks. I go again and it's not been done, I then do them and speak to the nurse.

God knows why that's done everything in bold.

I think it depends a bit if the type of ward they are admitted to short term eg medical assessment ward, post surgical recovery and discharge from that ward is likely within 72 hours or so or a longer stay ward.

In geriatrics they were pretty good, full shower twice a week whether they liked it or not plus more if needed due to incontinence. It took 3 members of staff to manage my relative. They also had volunteers on the ward helping with feeding, shaving, hair brushing where there were no relatives. The full nurses were pretty scarce but the hca's were amazing. The ward sister was though available to talk to and knew more than the drs! She was instrumental in helping us get the funding to move her to care in the community

Same here. I gave birth in 2003 and was in the postnatal ward for 3 days. No one came to change my sheets ( bloodstained sheets). After 2 days my husband eventually went in search of the linen cupboard and changed them for me. No staff came near me (or the other mums in that room) for hours at a time. My visitors told me that the staff were all at the other end of the ward chatting and drinking tea.

I’ve recently done a placement on a ward and everyday every patient was offered a wash, those who could do it themselves were given what they needed and those who needed help were given it. Often people refused.

I don't think it's just an understaffed thing, it's a personal responsibility thing. Some nurses are absolutely amazing, for example most of the ones I came across at hospices or at specialist hospitals, like the Royal Marsden. Fantastic! But even in private hospitals other nurses left me to give my small son a shower when I was really nervous about doing it because of all the post up drains, cannula etc. They literally only had two patients and there were two of them, so not overworked. Similarly when I gave birth the midwives at the desk were just chatting all the time, not helping new mothers, whereas another midwife was amazing. There don't seem to be any sanctions for poor performance, so the lazy ones carry on being lazy and the committed ones are worked off their feet and get burn out.

I actually had one literally shout at me because I got blood on the sheets, ten hours post partum! Didn't help, didn't show me how to bath or change the baby, just shouted at me and then went back to chatting at the desk.

Thank you @Londonlassy . I find so many posters who complain about nurses just are not getting the scale of the problem. How many of the posters who are complaining would actually want to be nurses or carers. Jobs that were traditionally done by women and now no one wants to do them anymore. As I said on my original post, my husband was in hospital recently and medical care was excellent but there was a sign in the ward showing how many nurses they were down each day, staff did not have time for personal hygiene. Just out of interest, how many of the outraged posters on here have children who want to be nurses or carers. I am a secondary school teacher. I don't think I ever come across students who want a nursing or caring roles.

@DueyCheatemAndHow
Where would you place denture cleaning in amongst, falls, controlled drug medication, IV antibiotics, blood transfusions, acute delirium management, feeding , toileting , wound and dressing changes , incontinence ? That’s without constant phone calls, Drs rounds, notes, ordering pharmacy, Oh and that’s for 2 registered nurses and 2 care assistants.

This has turned into a bit of nurse bashing thread, so I’m off. Tried to explain what many nurses are up against. It would be really helpful if you could all show us how to do deal and prioritise with the above.

Are you serious?

In a first world country given the tens of billions poured into the NHS we should not have to wash patients ourselves. Relatives often live hundreds of miles away or are not sufficiently close to start washing intimate areas. Many patients won’t have any living relatives.
Out sourcing feeding and washing to non existent relatives is a recipe for disaster and neglect.

It is not just the money, it is the lack of flexibility and the poor working conditions for nurses and carers. At the moment we are recruiting the majority of nurses from abroad. So few youngsters want to do it anymore and I don't blame them. I was so impressed by the nurses when my husband was in hospital but a lot of patients and their families were so rude to them, often racist as well.
Take a look at the current thread about jobs Mumsnetters could not personally do. Nursing is up there along with carers. There will have to be huge incentives for nurses in the future, not just money but free training, heavily subsidised housing and housing loans and far more respect from society

@embolass i'm not trying to bash anyone. The OP asked a question and I've replied with my experience. The pay is shite, they are clearly overworked etc etc etc. The OP asked if people weren't washed and I've replied that my most recent experience no they aren't.

@embolass . I completely agree with you. So many head in the clouds complaining posters on here who would not for a second consider the job of a nurse or carer themselves. So many posters who believe it is their right to have a cosy part time work from home job and then blast nurses and carers.

I can add my own story to those on here. In London, firstly in 1999 my father was very ill, had had numerous strokes and could no longer look after himself properly. He was left unwashed all day every day and his meals were put in front of him and when he couldn't manage to feed himself, they were taken away untouched. It took us a while to realise what was going on (i.e. zero care). He also caught MRSA because the ward was so dirty.

Fast forward to 2014, another elderly relative v ill in a London hospital, semi incontinent. Left to cope with the toilet on his own. I came to visit and he had tried his best to get to and from the loo, but shit was smeared all over his bed, and just left there.

@DueyCheatemAndHow
and I have tried to explain and why this happening and as a previous poster rightly said, so many more elderly requiring all care with too few staff to give it.

And I haven't argued with that!!

Jesus!

I worked as a carer for years.

But never once was I rude or nasty to the people in my care, no matter how much I didn’t want to be doing the job, or how tired I was. I treated each person with respect.

The rudeness and contempt I have experienced experienced during my own care and my fathers from nurses, HCA and some drs who tend to be better (and carers in his home, some of who can be vile, I worked with enough people who shouldn’t have been let near a gone vulnerable).

And no, I wasn’t asking for the world on a stick, or being rude myself or racist as another poster mentioned. I just wanted care and courtesy and not to be treated as an inconvenience who had no idea of my own condition.

All the smug posters complaining about nursing care should look at this thread.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4720356-jobs-you-respect-anyone-who-does-it-but-couldnt-do-yourself

No one rightly wants the job anymore

Yes, actually I am serious.

blog.abacoadvisers.com/hospitals-in-spain/

If the choice was leave my dad dirty and humiliated, or do it myself, it is a no brainer. I know we pay billions, but it is broken, a shit show.

If those who can, help their own relatives, the nurses would have more time to clean up those without a support network.

Yup I'm in the hospital now. The nurses chat a lot . Some nurses and hca just shirk work.

How dare the nurses chat 😂