Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

I had the same. I first stood up from my section, no help and blood just gushed out. A midwife and a HCA both shouted at me that I was making a huge mess and that they would have to clean it.

I collapsed back on the bed, no help, they just walked off. The blood stayed there until my dh arrived hours later and he asked them to clean it.

I’ve had the nurses/midwife chatting and laughing at the desk thing on so many occasions. But when you tell people that, they think you are lying for come reason, that they are always rushed off their feet.

Perhaps all uni students should be offered two week placements as volunteers on busy wards so that people realise how difficult the work is.
Then there might be more respect for nurses and carers and some might consider nursing as a career.
I would cancel student loans for any nurse still working in the NHS after five years and provide cheap mortgages and even help towards deposits for housing. There has to be more than money to make nursing a more popular career choice

But do you know what it’s like, when you are asking for help for yourself or a relative and you get stared at and told “we’re busy” and then they go back to having a chat and a laugh while you just stand there in distress?

Yes, how dare they.

You sound like an amazing and kind senior nurse. The kind I had whilst younger that still cared and wanted the patient to be comfortable and well cared for.

Since then I have had mixed experiences and many wards that were full of nurses laughing and joking as the patients were left to suffer. I felt like a major inconvenience for asking for pain relief. Alarms were ignored, they would walk past spills on the floor, no one was treated with respect. I saw how often they were on their phones as I was opposite the station. The endless paperwork which took up more time than it should.

The thing that worried me most was the air of total indifference. No one seemed to care.

Slashing paperwork, and increasing staffing levels, pay and incentives for nurses is a must, but someone has to tackle the indifference, the chatting and mobile use. Responsibility and standards need to return.

Try being seriously ill, in agony and being ignored as a nurse a few feet away laughs at their phone.
I was traumatised by my experience and needed PTSD treatment after one particular shocking incident (that will be outing) and have developed a deep fear of hospitals as a result. I know it’s hard for you, but being a patient is far far worse.

All these complaining posters who would have no intention of being a nurse or carer themselves. How many youngsters do you all know who would want nursing as a career or caring as a career?

@Princesspollyyy yep student nurses are not meant to help hcas too much we are meant to be supernumerary but that never happens I’ve had to be really firm and ask to be with the nurse but the hca on some occasions even though I am happy to help with personal care and will continue to do so once qualified but I would never learn anything else otherwise

The alternative Mumsnet world where other people should do the difficult jobs whilst the complainers demand the right to have flexible jobs for themselves.
Campaign for free training for nurses and hugely subsidised housing for them. Direct your anger at improving conditions for nurses and hopefully attracting some of the posters on here to consider nursing as a career for themselves or their children

My DM spent 3 months in hospital before she died in 2016. She was in a side room next to the nurses station. I think she was mostly washed and dressed but then she was just left to sit in a chair all day until bedtime. The only time she stood up was when I went in at the weekend - I lived 100 miles away and was a ft carer for another family member. She basically deteriorated physically due to neglect. Every time I went to visit, she told me tales of the 'lazy' nurses who sat chatting at the nurses station. She had a good view - she was right next to them!

I recall reading a study a few years back which said that patients will recover quicker if they are washed and put on day clothes every day instead of sitting around in pyjamas (where they are well enough to do so).

That comment - right there.
It is precisely THAT attitude that we are talking about.
If you are rushed off your feet, genuinely, and prioritise a chat over patient care then yes how dare you chat. You are not there to chat.

Chat in your own bloody time when you are not leaving patients at risk, in need and in dire straits ffs.

I cant understand why you didn't raise it with staff? I would be livid!
Im a nurse as well! Even though I'm in the community now I still work in the hospital wards sometimes.
You get lazy people everywhere! Yes I know it's very busy on a morning when there's 15 people to assist per team. But sometimes people used to get washed on an afternoon (as it took them all morning to pull themselves together) also some people liked to get showered before bed as it relaxes them and they just want a hand, face and teeth brush in a morning. Some of the early risers have assistance from night shift.
I never understand why some staff are obsessed with getting washed in a morning and doing a half arsed job!

I would imagine it’s a bit fat zero.

I don’t know anyone among my daughters current cohort (male or female) of school leavers wanting to do it. They would rather opt for well paid careers with flexible working.

I see lots of good care given at the hospital I work at. I’ve worked elsewhere and witnessed poor care, indifference, bullying of staff and patients. The latter is what led to mid-Staffs and is usually a consequence of poor staffing and burnout. There are plenty of matrons for those asking, they are the only group of nurses paid a reasonable wage. They spend their whole time auditing care.

With a growing elderly population we need to start valuing these jobs with high monetary reward and a guarantee of minimum staffing ratios. Otherwise there will be even fewer people willing to do them. We also need the elderly to contribute more financially to their care needs and have advanced care directives signed off in the event they lose capacity to make decisions for themselves. Prolonging the lives at all costs of people with advanced dementia and advocating the indignity of moving them to busy hospital wards is all wrong.

Who cares who delivered the water? Surely anyone knows that water's no good if the patient can't reach it? Qualified nurses were on the ward. Surely they as they walk round, they can move the water? Wouldn't they demonstrate to others what to do? Don't they lead the team around them?
My friends mother was dehydrated. My friend was upset and horrified. The doctor came and kicked up merry hell with the nursing staff.
And this was in 2003 or 4. Not something recent.
What I think is a problem is a matron saying her nurses are not trained to give care. If that training is not given on a degree course, then they need to reformulate the type of training they're getting.

Surely it’s down to shortage of staff.
In the past there were State Enrolled Nurses - fewer qualifications and less training than SRNs - to do the more basic patient care.

A relation was in hospital for six weeks last year. Her hair wasn't washed once. It seems basic care has been sacrificed to nurses becoming semi-doctors.

@Swissmountains @bigbluebus
And where are these nurses going to come from?
All of the moaning, venting posters do not get how difficult recruitment is. Things are not going to change by magic. Covid was just a couple of years ago and so many workers now have flexible hybrid jobs with little commuting and family friendly.
Where are the future nurses coming from? Mostly from overseas at the moment but that won't last forever.
Unless posters wake up and take action to massively improve working conditions for nurses and carers, hospitals will continue to be short staffed and patients will suffer.
Don't just moan, direct your anger at improving conditions for nurses

This happens to me a lot too. I just had a nurse using a leaking cannula and afterwards it flopped put. They seem to hate sorting out cannullas. It's horrible. All they want to do is take blood pressure and temperature. Anything else is too much to ask for.

Thank you @LionsandLambs . I wish all these moaning posters would read your post. So many entitled posters who want to moan but don't want to be part of the solution

You can raise your concerns/ requests as often as you like - you can feel livid and broken and still nothing at all will happen.

You are speaking as if talking/asking/pleading makes any difference - it doesn’t unless you are fortunate enough to have a kind nurse or medic that actually recognises your humanity and helps you. Often even then it is done reluctantly with tuts and reminders of how blessed you are to have pain relief/a bed pan or a glass of water.

It’s a horrendous experience.
I am not bashing nurses - some do an incredible job - but there are things that really need to change.

Chatting, mobile phone use, eating chocolates whilst reading magazines in the stations - I saw this a lot, speaking too loudly and not considering the sick people around you and ignoring patients repeatedly should be stopped.

My eldest son was in a serious motorcycle accident in July 2012. He was in hospital for several weeks and had 3 operations to rebuild his arm, hand and shoulder. It was very hot. He wasn't washed. His arm support thing was covered with blood. I washed him on the ward. The nurses were fantastic with all the space age equipment, their bedside manner was not so great. The London Olympics opened on the Friday of the first week. Everytime its replayed on the tv it takes me right back to that awful time.

Wow thank God for your mum. She is amazing

You say moaning complaining posters?

We are sharing very sad, traumatic experiences. Why not listen? Empathise? Understand how frightening it is?

You can't shower patients "whether they like it or not" if they have capacity.

They have to give consent to everything you do for them. Are you just talking about patients who lack capacity?

A basic lack of care in hospitals isn’t a new problem. All my experiences were pre-covid and the standard of care from nurses was frankly appalling. Out of around 5 various experiences, I experienced great care once. There are some fantastic people working in our hospitals but my experiences have shown these are the exception.

Trying to get a simple glass of water is met with eye rolls whilst 3/4 nurses are sitting at their station reading magazines and chatting. I’ve had to leave a scared young child alone whilst I fetched water for them from 2 corridors away, having to make several trips because of the stupidly small cups and no jugs. I’ve had exactly the same problem trying to get water in a private hospital too, so it’s not just the NHS.

I was told by a grumpy nurse that the beds/trolleys in the A&E cubicles don’t have pillows when we asked for one for an elderly relative had been lying down for hours waiting to be treated. There wasn’t a pillow anywhere apparently…….

It’s not a popular opinion to say anything against nurses though. The reality is that some (not all) genuinely aren’t interested in patient care or well being. I’ve had several experiences where I’ve witnessed nurses sitting at their station chatting and laughing whilst patient shouts/buzzers are ignored.

I’m not saying that it’s an easy job and I’m thankful that some people want to do it, but I do think that a lot of nurses seem to have lost sight of the fact that patients are human beings who need to be treated with a degree of compassion and dignity.