Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

My daughter in law got MRSA when she had her first child. It took about six weeks of three different antibiotics to shift it. The lack of cleanliness in hospitals is dire.

I agree. It is heart breaking.

My nanna was in hospital recently and it was the same. No washing, not even a hair brush. She was really embarrassed but not be clean and tidy for visitors. I was really disappointed in the staff attitude too, it's like they'd given up on them.

Patients can develop sepsis and other infections due to a lack of hygiene.

Lazy nursing is not the same as a lack of staff, you have conflated the two. Why has basics care and hygiene been completely abandoned even when staffing levels are adequate? It is neglect and can have fatal consequences for some patients. It’s not a luxury.

By the way, voting Labour won’t necessarily help. My bad experiences were under a Labour govt.

I'm a nurse of 30 years and continually shocked by the drop in standards in hospitals. When I transfer a patient from Theatre back to the ward I have to spend ages sorting out the bed before I can put the patient in it. The sheets will be dirty and the bed will have books, chargers etc on it; sometimes there is a bed trolley with a meal on it which is in the way.

In the old days (90's!) as soon as the patient went to Theatre, the ward staff got the bed ready for his return - clean sheets, a " theatre pack" and the bed height raised to make the transfer easier. I mentioned this to a young ward nurse recently and she just looked blank. Older nurses just say "we don't have time".

Even more scary is that often the nurses don't even know that there patient has gone to Theatre until we bring them back!!

It’s fast becoming the case that we are returning to the Victorian era of health care, where you go to hospital to die not to be saved or cared for.

I have been shocked by the total indifference of the nurses that have posted on here. I suspect if they could, they would tell us that this is the least of it. Patients die from dehydration and neglect every day. Washing is irrelevant I guess they are just trying to keep everyone alive.

We need major reform urgently.

My grandchild was in hospital recently and I was shocked to see nurses on their mobile phones. They were laughing and showing each others photos and videos in front of parent and kids. One young man was pushing a patient on a trolley with one hand and watching something on his phone in his other. I'm surprised he didn't crash the trolley. A woman was there who looked like a manager. She didn't care, just acted like this was normal. How times have changed!

Bring back ward sisters and Matrons.

When my brother in law was terminally ill and in hospital, my sister in law went in to visit and on several occasions found him in a soiled bed and had to ask for him to be cleaned up. Once she went to the nurses station and disturbed their chat, and asked them when exactly were they going to do their job, as her husband had dried faeces all up his back, and was crying because he was sore. An hour later she went back and asked where the bowls were, and the clean linen, so she could do it herself, and someone very reluctantly came and cleaned him up. When he was discharged she brought him home in his night clothes and had to put him straight in the bath. They had put him in clean pyjamas but he had dried faeces on the backs of his legs. He didn't have an incontinence problem, he never had any accidents at home, he had a lack of basic care in hospital.

Apparently not. My 82 year old dad is on again the moment and despite me asking twice he went 10 days without having his dentures cleaned (he can't do it himself at the moment.) The third time I got cross and it was then done, but I was not happy.

Yes we need some discipline and standards.
We need many thousands more nurses, and the lazy ones can be weeded out. Any nurse is better than no nurse is the current mindset, so poor behaviour and practise is not challenged enough.

Every corner of the NHS needs to be overhauled. Our nurses need to be well paid and well rested, you can’t pour from an empty jug.

Swissmountains I have not conflated the two, lazy v lack of staff. I referred to lazy in relation to your dads ward. Basic hygiene and mouth care should be a given.
Lack of staff in my own, 24 bedded ward has a direct hit on this. Basic care has not been abandoned it’s what should happen every morning, all washed, made fresh , teeth cleaned etc, I know this. I love seeing and making a patient feel better, it’s amazing what a bit of hot soap and water can do.
But when you start at 7 am and are immediately faced with the list I have given you how do you prioritise? What comes first- dealing with a fall, some one requiring pain medication, feeding 3 patients breakfast, dealing with a bed bound faecally incontinent man who needs 3/4 staff, or a patient so distressed and confused with dementia and trying to leave the ward.
Please tell me where you would start?
I don’t wish to pick a fight, however this is the reality we face.

It seems that nurses get into more trouble from their superiors for not completing their paperwork/electronic forms (such as nutrition assessment, pressure sore risk etc) than if practical basic patient care is not done. They spend so long writing "care plans" they don't have time to actually implement the care.

Ex nurse here. I did my training in the 70s There we’re less nursing staff on the wards than there is now. My nurse training was mostly practical as opposed to how it is now. We worked very hard. During visiting time we had to clean down all the equipment and we’re never allowed to sit down.
I’ve a lot of experience of hospitals these days, parents in and out constantly. I’m shocked at how lazy some of the staff are. I’ve witnessed nurses walking away from needy patients and laughing that it’s the end of their shift.
I’ve seen utter and total neglect, to my own parents and others .I’ve complained numerous times but never got anywhere apart from once when I received an apology. Nurse are often seen sitting for long periods of time, and then when asked to do something, it’s done begrudgingly.
I have to say though it depends on the ward. One or two have been amazing. The others terrible. I don’t know what the answer is though, all I’d say is Think carefully before becoming a nurse, it used to be a vocation, not just a job. If your not enjoying it do something else.

It's risky to complain whilst you are still in hospital though. I was in the stroke ward at FVRH and an English lady who had been on holiday in the area had been admitted. Her family, in England were of course coming to Scotland to visit, had complained that they were being given no information, were the topic of much anger by the senior nurse on duty. All patients, including me, could hear her ranting about them and not one other nurse asked her to stop. This lady would hear her too.
She said "if they're not happy why don't they all get on a bus and go home " amongst many other horrible comments.
I did complain once I was discharged but got no reply.

with several nurses chatting at the nurses station

Every thread this crops up, have yet to see it in real life.

Yes patients should be cleaned still, due to the massive shortages sadly this is often cut to ensure essential care can be given.

I trained in the 70s as a radiographer and there were hardly any elderly compared to now. I remember staff fussing over a 92 year old man as that was an unusual event. Now there is a constant stream of poorly elderly who are confused, we aren't usually allowed to move much so can't provide much comfort until they are diagnosed, it's a bit like a conveyer belt. Also heavy work as they can't always do for themselves. Other changes are ultrasound, MRI scans, Cat scans, mammograms - a different world.

Can you or another family member not do it?

The nhs was never set up to cope with the number of elderly, frail patients who are on a ridiculous cocktail of medications to prolong their life regardless of the quality.

This is so sad.
I was kept in a maternity ward after I had my daughter. I’d had a post birth haemorrhage and I was kept in for 3 nights. My sheets were bloodstained and not changed in all that time.
I remember my brother coming in to visit us and seeing the blood on the sheets and being horrified.

My father was frightened to complain . He had been on boards during his working f life and said he’d be targeted if he raised a complaint. This was from a man dying of cancer at the end of a very hard working life. It was really distressing.

What hospital are your relatives in?

dont get me know showers don’t happen as often as we like but everyone has a wash/bedbath and we have a cool contraption (and a sharps bucket for draining) to wash bed bound patients hair.
wecare short. And we can wash well in to afternoon some days. But we wouldn’t dream of leaving patients without a wash.
nurses don’t get as much opportunity to wash, but I try to get involved in one at least per shift but we have great hcas on my unit.

im sorry this happens to your dad. Just raise it with staff

This is awful. I've been very ill and in and out if hospital. I couldn't get out of bed, but the nurses washed me throroughly every day, helped me to clean my teeth and brush my hair. When I started to get a bit better, they would bring me bowls of hot water, soap, towels etc. I thought this was standard practice.

@DueyCheatemAndHow why did you not clean the dentures ?