Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

I had a major operation completely unable to care for myself type of operation - in a PRIVATE hospital. I had an allergic reaction to the type of morphine and was left to lie in vomit and other bodily fluids for most of the night. Once it was cleaned up - no wash or shower. My hair was matted with vomit. It was beyond horrendous. Like a living nightmare.

Second time around I tied up my hair, took dry shampoo and water free shower wash and knew what was coming.

Patient care was virtually non existent.
I can well believe people are left to rot. The indignity and feelings of vulnerability are off the scale when this happens. It’s very frightening to be left without basic needs even being met.

It needs to be addressed as it’s how serious infection begins. It’s not a case of being ‘too busy’ it has severe, potentially fatal health implications for some patients.

Are you for real?!
Im all for giving benefit of the doubt but unless the nurses are mind reading, how would they know the OP “ liked” this .. it was done by the OP because it wasnt by the nurses!

I asked repeatedly, pleaded to be helped to wash. Nope - not enough staff.
In a different hospital I was in a bed and the walls were splattered with blood.
It needs to be said. The grim reality.

I don’t know how on earth you survive if you are very elderly and have no family.

I spent a lot of time in hospital this last year and the lack of care I witnessed was disgusting. Also this whole speech nurses give about not having breaks not having time to pee ect is very difficult to listen to when you literally see them standing around chatting and shouting down corridors to each other discussing their latest nights out and their sex lives. I could tell you more about certain nurses personal lives then I could my own family and friends.

Yes, why aren’t people doing this? Kick up an almighty fuss. I

This is devastating. My mum is in good health for now but dementia is rife in the family and this year I've noticed she's starting to forget words more and more. I'm scared for the future. I have a full-on career and a benign but mostly-useless brother and its all very well telling yourself you won't sacrifice your life, but how many of us could sit by and watch our parents suffer? I couldn't. I'm scared of the future. If I ever get diagnosed with dementia I'm doing whatever the hell I want for three years then offing myself. Not because I hate life - quite the opposite.

I’m not sure if I could wash my father myself I would have to speak with someone at the hospital. My FIL was in hospital in 2017 and was washed daily, we commented on how clean he looked as whilst he was living at home he always looked a bit grubby. He refused DH and BIL offers to wash but had no issues with the HCA who were great.

My MIL wasn't bathed or so much as had her hair brushed during the 3 weeks that she was in hospital, 18 years ago. During a visit by me and exH, a nurse rinsed her thermometer in a plastic cup of Sprite that had been sitting on top of her locker and shoved it in her mouth.

When my godmother was in a different hospital last year, she was told by the nursing staff to ignore the agitated 94 year old lady in the next bed as she had dementia. She didn't have dementia, all she wanted was to put her hearing aids back in as they had been put out of reach by staff on another shift and she couldn't move to get them herself (godmother was also bed bound and couldn't help).

Last year, again in a different hospital, the husband of one of my friends was admitted following a serious rtc. She is a senior nurse in another hospital and she was so shocked at the poor standards of care and communication on his ward - she told me that during an hour long visit ALL of the nursing staff had their backs turned to the ward - and therefore patients - the entire time and spent all of that time chatting. He wasn't given any pain relief at all
There was also apparently a complete lack of proper communication or indeed fucks given when he was being admitted (she initially couldnt even find out which hospital he'd been taken to or whether he was still alive) and also when it came to having him transferred to the hospital where she works so that he actually got the surgery that was needed and level of care required.

So that's 3 different hospitals. 2 different trusts.

It makes no difference. You can’t force it to happen ‘by making a fuss’ You will be asked to leave the ward.

There is a complaints procedure. If that doesn’t work, get on local radio, write to your MP.
The only way this will continue is if people accept it as the norm.
We aren’t living in a third world country, it it certainly feels like it.
I had appalling experiences thirty years ago when I had my children. Some staff were good, others extremely neglectful and uncaring. I was left without food frequently, unsupported and ignored. One member of staff came in to do her make up in the mirror completely ignoring me, then left. The midwife I had with my first child was atrocious. Nursing has been going downhill for a long time. I dread having to go into hospital.

My Dad is currently in HDU rafter a major cancer op. He’s quite unwell. He can get out of bed into a chair but that’s it at the moment.
They do his teeth and wash him every day. They washed his hair yesterday. He has clean sheets and gown at least once a day. The care is amazing.

Oh, and in yet another hospital, 2 years ago, another friends elderly mum went in with a kidney problem but died needlessly because pressure sores became infected.

One of my mums friend's husband was discharged, got home, community nurse visited the following day, took one look at the open wound on his leg and had him readmitted, saying there's no way he should've been discharged given the state that he was in.

My favourite thing to do that makes the most difference to how people feel is to wash, bath or shower and wash a patients hair.
Even if it means working past my finish time, I have done this many many times.
As a senior sister, I have ensured this is done within teams and have flitted from team to team to assist with it.

Luxury.

But now, when a night nurse is waiting for the day shift to come on shift…. And there is NO day shift coming on because there are no qualified nurses turning in and actually the night shift nurse cannot leave, then does this demonstrate how dire things have become?

With one qualified for 30-34 patients, it is impossible to do anything but drug rounds, wounds and documentation with no hope of a break in 12-14 hours. Now I work past my finish time to submit and answer incidents.

This why I am actively seeking work out of nursing and the NHS.
I know that what you face with your dad is horrific. I feel desperate for you and ashamed that I am a part of this.

Its like shovelling a huge pile of shit with a T spoon, while more shit comes in dumper trucks.
That’s the NHS now.

Rather than speaking to the student nurse, why not speak to the nurse in charge of the ward and ask what the procedure is for patient hygiene (bathing etc) - and then depending on the answer, either follow up with why is there none, or why is it not being followed (or if your father is declining personal care, explore capacity and consent issues). And then, again depending on how the conversation goes, follow the hospital complaints procedure.

I did write and complain about a lack of washing as well as being given the wrong drugs and being seriously ill as a result. Three months later I received a letter of apology and an explanation that staffing levels were affected by norovirus circulating. That’s it.

What more can anyone do.

The radio stations aren’t interested in hair washing or patient care in this way. I emailed my MP and she replied and said ‘they are doing their best’ basically I was fobbed off, as she didn’t address the core issue.

AI will come to the rescue one day, in the mean time it’s beyond grim to be in that position. Trust me

And the complaints procedure leads where exactly? Do you think anyone actually cares? That is but my impression at all. Part of the problem is to total lack of accountability.

We need to bring back matrons on every single ward; and increase care assistants to help with basic washing and cleaning care.

I showered my mum whenever she was able for it, I used to bring in the best towels and her favourite shower gel and sometimes did a hair mask.

I think some people really don’t like strangers doing all that for them, I did it for my mum willingly. She was a very private lady.

The more Ill you are, the better the personal care. I felt like nobody really gave a shit until she was dying on a cardiac ward. Up to that point she was treated like an inconvenience although we were desperately trying to find out why she was so Ill. I had to beg them for anything investigative. I think old people get treated badly on general assessment wards. But also I know the falls risk is a factor in then not offering daily showers etc.

Why won't people name the hospitals - is it not allowed on MN?
I think I'd name the nurses too.

Everyone always wants someone else to tackle the problem.

But elderly DM was in hospital and I assumed they got a daily shower and they didn't - but then worked out how long it would take to shower 20 unsteady elderly patients. Say an hour each - so that's 20 hours - that's 2.5 nurses booked up all day.

I feel for you it sounds desperately hard, and I am sorry it should not be like this.

But it’s not a ‘luxury’, and should never be a luxury to have clean patients. Especially ones with open wounds. The fact you now see cleaning patients as a luxury is slightly terrifying. This shows just how bad things have become.

You say there is just one qualified nurse doing the drugs rounds for 30-34 patients etc. so why can’t the others wash patients? What are they doing? Care assistants, student nurses etc.

I don’t think anyone wants to do it, so it doesn’t get done, and now it’s an entrenched culture even with reasonable staffing levels I imagine it still isn’t done because it’s seen as a ‘luxury’. Being clean is a basic human need, not a luxury. I am not blaming you btw - and thank you for your post. It’s illuminating.

Nurse of over 25 years and still in acute setting.
Some staff can be lazy or not see it as a priority, and I would enquire again on your fathers ward what the procedure for washing /showering is.
However if you have 24 patients and 2 qualified nurses and 2 assistants, I’m afraid that personal care does drop down the list. Toileting, medicines, feeding, obs, IV therapies, controlled drugs,constant phone calls, falls, confusion all required to be dealt with, often all at same time, it’s impossible. Shops and cafes have greater staffing levels. More staff = safe care. It is not rocket science
I’ll ask you all who you’ve voted for and if it’s the Tories then “your welcome”.

What about infection control? Does that not matter anymore? Patients with wounds or bed sores, bacteria and dirt not washed off. It’s disgusting.

our local teaching (?) hospital FAILED to
diagnose my mums heart condition until it was too late.

They didn’t listen when I ask if she could have heart failure - to me; she had all the signs: I was right. She is dead. I had to beg them for an echocardiogram - she had it 6 weeks later by which time she was riddled with endocarditis. I don’t give a fuck if this is outing by the way.

Nurses didn’t seem to know that tunnel vision can be a sign of impending stroke - my mum went blind and demented five days later from a stroke. Consultant told me to take her to an optician when she got out. The consultant.

i am gonna go to town in those motherfuckers as soon as I have the energy.

You need to advocate for your older person as much as you can because like the washing situation, If you’re not making demands and on top of your game they just get left to rot. I can not emphasise this enough.I am confident bossy well read and had endless time to devote to my mum and she still died. You need to get power of attorney for your loved ones, folks, and once they get admitted to hospital, you lodge it with them and then fight for them.

When I had DS at 28 weeks in late 2008, I kept repeatedly asking for someone to help me to the shower. Had a section so was incredibly sore and my legs were numb for days.

It took until day 5 of my being there before this happened. Even changing my pad after the birth (in the hospital I was in, I was undressed on the bottom half of me all night and was laying on one of those night time bedwetting pads you put under potty training toddlers) took hours of asking and I felt disgusting.

It was no wonder I got an infection in my section site. The nurses and midwives there though we're bloody nasty, the first morning I was there, they had a breakfast cart which you helped yourself to, I couldn't get to it as I had nothing on bottom half, and a catheter, and was numb, I asked for a nurse to help, she sneered and said "do you think this is a hotel?" And she stormed off. If it wasn't for the lady opposite me I would have had no food for days.

It was no different when I was in hospital 20 years ago with a broken back. No wash the whole time I was in and I remember the nurses standing around chatting. All seemed very uncaring apart from one lovely Australian nurse, who did try to help me when she was on shift and ran around trying to help everyone whilst the other nurses chatted.

I suspect it is a mix of training, understaffing and demoralisation. The UK has 7.8 nurses per 1000 population which is lower than most of Europe www.statista.com/statistics/283124/selected-countries-nurses-per-1-000-inhabitants/

My dad was in hospital when he died jan 2020, he was spotless and shaved and mum said she was so glad he’d died in hospital rather than the care home he was in the week before where he looked like a tramp. This was Covid days so us visiting and keeping on top of his care was hard due to limited or not allowed visiting.

the hospitals are in crisis now, DD works in one. Everyone is understaffed.