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Original poster

Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

814 replies

Shortkiwi · 14/01/2023 23:08

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

OP posts:
MarshaMelrose · 15/01/2023 02:16

HumourReplacementTherapy · 14/01/2023 23:40

At least rishy and his family will be ok though.
How fucking degrading and disgraceful Sad

No, don't do that. This isn't a political issue. This is just lack of basic care by nurses. My mil went into an NHS run convalescent home. My sil complained how my mil was being treated and she was told by the matron that as nurses they were trained in giving medication, they weren't trained in giving care so they didnt know what to do.
My friends mother had dementia and went into hospital. My friend went to see her and her tongue,was black because the nurses left her water jug and glass on her tray at the bottom of the bed and she couldn't reach.
If a nursing degree doesn't provide nurses with the basic skills of actually caring for a patient, then maybe degrees should be stopped and nursing certificates should be started again.

Original poster
Shortkiwi · 15/01/2023 02:16

@Hanschenklein
I do not feel I have been disingenuous. I was and still am in favour of nurses striking. I posted weeks ago before my experience with my Dad in hospital this week, the last time any of my family was in hospital was over 10 years ago. I was surprised, that’s all. Call me old fashioned but I just think a patient’s personal hygiene shouldn’t be overlooked. My dealings with student nurses these days tends to be in discussing our role in the community, sorry but I haven’t discussed this issue in hospital with them as it hasn’t come up. We focus on their learning outcomes with us when out on placement.

OP posts:
headstone · 15/01/2023 02:33

MarshaMelrose it was probably not a nurse delivering the water jug, possibly someone without a degree; (if that’s what you think is the problem) . Soft diets can also cause black tongue.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General health
babsanderson · 15/01/2023 02:33

I am sorry for all those who had negative experiences.
But it is not the whole picture.
My father was in hospital last year and was bedbound. He was washed and shaved every day and his hair was always neatly combed. The care was very good.

SpangledShambles · 15/01/2023 02:51

My disabled friend was dying of cancer in the 1990’s. He was ignored, never washed and given a dry sandwich he couldn’t reach or unwrap or eat. The nurses were generally to be found chatting at their station. They ignored him completely. So this is not new or a result of Covid. I’m sure there are good doctors and nurses out there’re. I have not met many.

SpangledShambles · 15/01/2023 03:00

Recent experience of shocking time for my badly injured dm- when we we asked for simple stuff like pain meds from nurses, docs or other staff, we were talked down to and ignored. And we are all very able to speak up politely and in an informed way. What is it like if you have dementia, confusion or mental health issues?

Copperoliverbear · 15/01/2023 03:21

No, if able enough have to do it themselves. X

SilverPeacock · 15/01/2023 03:26

I was in hospital three times last year and was in different wards. It was like night and day in terms of the care I received between different wards. But even on the shit ward there was the odd good member of staff. I was left without pain medication for hours despite repeated asking and it was the feeling they gave that you were putting them to bother whilst all standing around chatting to each other. So a lot of this is about culture and leadership on the ward/area I would say and whether this is good or lacking.

WiddlinDiddlin · 15/01/2023 03:48

2 weeks, no one offered, my notes said I need help as I can't reach, can't stand, I had a cannula in my right hand so was struggling with toilet a bit too, and wheelchair user...

Back then I could do personal care after toilet but now I can't, I really am TERRIFIED of needing hospital care now, particularly as I am now so huge (yay insulin) I'll need two people for certain things. So that'll be me sat in my own shite and piss for hours or days on end.

Seriously, every. Single. Shift. I had to tell each person I used a wheelchair, and POINT AT IT... and that I needed help. If I didn't, asking for help resulted in being told to do it by myself, so I really did have to explain every time.

Still, no offer. When I really insisted, I was fobbed off and told someone would come later, in a minute, just after this... no one ever came.

SO yeah 2 weeks, no wash. And I got shouted at for doing my teeth in bed using my water beaker and jug.

Londonlassy · 15/01/2023 03:58

I was a nurse in a previous life I now work in a WFH job with better hours, better conditions and better pay but most importantly I am treated with respect and I don’t come home everyday crying because of impossible workloads and genuine genuine gut wrenching fear that I had harmed a patient due to the war zone that is now nursing.

Everyone I know is leaving nursing and strongly discouraging their DC to not join the profession. @anexcellentwoman is exactly right…ask yourself would you like to wash up to 7 to 8 incontinent patients every day? Would your children like to do it? Nursing is traditional women’s work except women are more and more refusing to do this women’s work ( quite understandable ) where they are as a profession so appallingly

Kevinyoutwat · 15/01/2023 04:04

Nope.

My dad was left covered in his own shit and discharged to my house like that. I had to get a travelogde room for the day so he could use a disabled shower and I could hose him
down in that as his arthritis meant he couldn’t climb into my bath.

Kevinyoutwat · 15/01/2023 04:08

SpangledShambles · 15/01/2023 02:51

My disabled friend was dying of cancer in the 1990’s. He was ignored, never washed and given a dry sandwich he couldn’t reach or unwrap or eat. The nurses were generally to be found chatting at their station. They ignored him completely. So this is not new or a result of Covid. I’m sure there are good doctors and nurses out there’re. I have not met many.

Me neither.

I’ve had some terrible hospital stays myself myself. And what I witnessed with my father with dementia - if you treated a dog like he was, you’d be prosecuted.

Yet we are supposed to think the staff are all saints.

Molly70 · 15/01/2023 04:10

My dad was in hospital for a couple of weeks in 2013 and was washed every day. Not by the nurses though, there were staff hired to clean patients and change bedding.

Okapi99 · 15/01/2023 04:24

I honestly can't believe some of the care your relatives have been given. Not saying I don't believe it, just find it very hard to.

I'm a hca on an elderly medicine ward. Yes we're super short staffed and the nurses are busy, but i know that everyone is offered and helped with either a bed bath or assisted with a wash daily.

Patients in incontinence aids get their pads check Ed at a maximum of 4 hourly, or earlier if its seen that it needs doing. Obviously that can go over depending on the ward demands.

Nurses don't tend to do very much personal care toileting, bed changes etc on my ward at all. They do meds, observations, iv's, notes, risk assessments etc. It's the hca's that do the washes shaves mouth care etc.

In my trust we have intentional rounding charts where we have to document care we give to the patients whether they're self caring/bedbound. Need rolls or assistance with toileting. And we document if its been done.

I would absolutely tell anyone that if you feel the care your relative gets is substandard then flag it up. Ask to speak to the ward manager or the matron. Ask to see the rounding charts.

The sad fact is generally there are not enough hca's to give sufficient personal care 24/7 on the wards atm. We've had extra patients squeezed into 4 bedded bays. It's no excuse and care can be severely lacking in certain days but not for a week at a time

Sorry for the essay

NeuroWasabi · 15/01/2023 04:25

I hope all the people with negative stories are going to put complaints in so that things can improve for everyone.

Kevinyoutwat · 15/01/2023 04:32

NeuroWasabi · 15/01/2023 04:25

I hope all the people with negative stories are going to put complaints in so that things can improve for everyone.

I have always complained.

And if I’ve ever told anyone, I’ve been told that I shouldn’t have. Poor old NHS, poor staff. It’s ingrained in people to bend over and take it.

How many times have you heard of people getting poor care in hospital or from GPs and making excuses?

It’s how they keep getting away with it.

And God help you if you say you are going to sue, people treat you with contempt for that.

If people complained everyone they received poor care, things wouldn’t be so bad.

MoreCraicPlease · 15/01/2023 04:53

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/01/2023 23:35

It seems to be case in the UK but not in Ireland - elderly relatives there have been washed, changed and fed.

Sadly not our experience of two major Dublin hospitals in the past two years. One relative went three weeks without having a shower or hair washed.

itsjustnotok · 15/01/2023 05:00

@Shortkiwi so what happens next? You say they aren’t busy and are just spending time chatting while your dad lays in bed unwashed. I’d be asking for the senior nurse in charge of the ward to ask what the policy is on personal hygiene and call them out on it. This is the one issue I have with MN posts, you’ve come on here to vent your frustration but what have you actioned? Have you called them out? Unless its
highlighted then it’s being swept under the carpet and your dad continues to receive optimum care and likely is the case for every other person on the ward. Reading your posts, you’re saying they have the time because they are chatting and doing nothing and the ward isn’t busy so call them out on it. It doesn’t need to be a screaming match and perhaps someone will do something. PALS too to make a point.

Bagsundermyeyestoday · 15/01/2023 05:06

This is so depressing 😞

Gilead · 15/01/2023 05:07

There are two hospitals near me, in one I am offered washing facilities or a bed wash daily. I am frequently admitted as an emergency patient, but have no bother at the first hospital. Am always offered help with showers etc.
I refuse to go to the other hospital. I have been admitted and forgotten; own room, en suite. It wasn’t until I left the room to ask for pain relief that they realised I was there. Second time I was admitted, I was sent home with a dangerous drug reduction, good job I knew that it was dangerous and I ignored them. Third time, I didn’t (fortunately ) know what was going on, but I had a bowel blockage. I was left on a trolley, in a corridor with clothes covered in vomit, urine and faeces for about ten hours.

Hdkatznahtw125sgh · 15/01/2023 05:10

I’m an ITU nurse. We help our patients with a wash (usually bed bath, very occasionally a pt is well enough to shower) at least once a day, aim to shave daily (bare minimum every other day), wash hair regularly and freshen up often. However, the wards in my hospital which we occasionally get moved to run at often 1 registered nurse and 2-3 HCAs for 30-40 patients and I have heard they can’t always wash their patients daily which saddens me. In ITU we really enjoy and take pride in being able to give high quality hygiene and personal care, but we have 2-3 patients each (supposed to be 1-2) as opposed to 15-20.

Startwithamimosa · 15/01/2023 05:10

itsjustnotok · 15/01/2023 05:00

@Shortkiwi so what happens next? You say they aren’t busy and are just spending time chatting while your dad lays in bed unwashed. I’d be asking for the senior nurse in charge of the ward to ask what the policy is on personal hygiene and call them out on it. This is the one issue I have with MN posts, you’ve come on here to vent your frustration but what have you actioned? Have you called them out? Unless its
highlighted then it’s being swept under the carpet and your dad continues to receive optimum care and likely is the case for every other person on the ward. Reading your posts, you’re saying they have the time because they are chatting and doing nothing and the ward isn’t busy so call them out on it. It doesn’t need to be a screaming match and perhaps someone will do something. PALS too to make a point.

This. I'm not one to protest but this feels like something worth getting angry about 🤬

Hdkatznahtw125sgh · 15/01/2023 05:13

OP as an NHS staff nurse I’d encourage you to speak to the ward sister / SCN and speak to PALS, if it’s not happening because of staffing then a complaint helps demonstrate this. If it’s not happening because of a poor culture then a complaint is needing to advocate for those who don’t have nursing staff / caring relatives for family members x

Hdkatznahtw125sgh · 15/01/2023 05:14

Oh and in ITU we brush teeth twice a day and give oral care 2-4 hourly, patient dependent. There’ll be an oral care policy.

Cariadz · 15/01/2023 05:19

In lots of other countries patient’s family does all personal care, has the health system been stripped so bare that it’s happening now ?

This is the norm where I live in both private and government hospitals. In fact I’m in hospital now and when I told my niece I was going in the the second thing she said was, we’ll each do a day in there with you. As it happens one of my girls comes in every morning till midday and sorts me out, I’m not very mobile, and her sister brings me a nice meal every evening and gets me ready for the night even though I’m in a private hospital. We’re fortunate here in that our health service works really well but families believe the job of looking after their loved one is for them to do. There is personal care there for the taking but people would really just look upon it as back up.