Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

Yes but population rises due to immigration for one (when I was young the pop was 50 million now it’s nearly 70 million - that means it’s gone up by nearly 50 %. The birth rate for years was 2.4 now it’s under 2 I think. So it’s not that women are having more children, they’re having less.

But what has changed Is medical care - everyone (eventually) is being kept fit and living much longer, all those triple bypasses, diabetic care, premature babies, scans, ultrasounds, pharmaceutical discoveries….. you can’t really deny people that.

@9outof10cats it's all over this thread. Too busy to keep patients clean, too busy to make a 30 second phone call etc. Safe in the knowledge that 99% of people won't question terrible neglect of care and won't question chatting and other nonsense because NHS staff are too busy is the national chant.
Would you accept a wheel falling off your car because the mechanic was too busy or undercooked food because the chef was too busy? Probably not, yet we accept substandard care without question because staff are too busy. It's nonsense.

@Felix01 why on earth should anyone volunteer to provide basic patient care when all over this thread are anecdotes of nurses chattering and giggling rather than working. Some nurses are overworked angels, others are not.

As long ago as 1994 when ds was born a tiny bit early on Christmas day, there were more staff than patients on the ward. The staff could not be bothered. When I wanted a bath and the bath was filthy, literally covered in blood, I reported it to the midwives chatting at the desk thinking they would call a cleaner. The response "yeah another patient would have left it like that, there's vim on the side and you can use the paper towels". Not an acceptable response to a woman who had lost a lot if blood, had a baby in SCBU overnight. I don't think I shoukd have been told to clean up another person's body fluids - told being the operative word, rather than asked.

I'm not doubting patients lived experience but I would like people to see what it's like for the staff now the ratios are bloody appalling. When my dad was in hospital , I went and assisted with his care. Many people are complaining but would not attempt to try and take care of 15 people single handly many bed bound with dysphagia , need turning , hoisting assisting with meals. While I was toileting one person another was crying to go and sadly they soiled themselves as I only have two hands. I've been bitten , spat at , punched in the chest There's many shifts I didn't get a break and my feet would bleed and swell.

I left for a complex care behaviours of concern role and the ratios are much better. I'm very pleased and my staff actually have time to wash and feed patients. One HCA is allocated to each patient to complete their morning routine. I have time to take my time with my patients. The current situation in the NHS is unsustainable , I did not go into nursing to be worked to death by the impossible pressure. Many people are choosing to leave because of the conditions so there will be less staff.

So why didn’t you stay with him?

Absolute bullshit , I was working myself into an early grave if you think it's normal to care for 15 very immobile patients who need assistance with feeding on my own? Are staff expected to work themselves to death by the general public ? People will keep leaving the NHS wards because they are awful the ratios are atrocious and I don't think the public realise this.

What does that have to do with anything? Surely, if somebody decides on nursing as a profession then they gain the qualifications and experience necessary for that job, as they would with any other.

There are some excellent nurses and some dreadful ones (who should leave) - and some in between. This is the same as any other job. The difference to me is that medicine is seen as vocational, as a caring profession, and - with the notable exception of our government - is held in high esteem by the public. Other jobs are not viewed the same way.

Why are some posters being so prickly about other posters' experiences as patients? Being defensive against them doesn't change anything.

My experience as a patient 8 years ago was very different to how it was in October 2022. I didn't leave feedback (requested) for October because I didn't want to speak against the NHS. That wouldn't happen in any other customer realm, I wouldn't hesitate to speak up.

The NHS needs so much input and help - and deserves it - but that doesn't mean that the dead wood should continue to be lauded and kept on just because, NHS...

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen And another poster who overlooks facts to defend the NHS. As I said in my original post, I wasn't allowed to stay with him. Hence why the only way we could find out when to collect him was via the hospital, which was too busy to tell us and too busy to answer phones when we called.

@Felix01 I honestly think the problem is that the nurses and GPs have been whingeing about overwork for all of my adult life (from 1978). It is hard to determine when whinge became reality and we all know what happened to the boy who cried wolf. Meanwhile until probably this year, the NHS has been worshipped as a special behemoth with every patients being told it is free and the envy of the world. For decades now patients have been expected and encouraged to express gratitude for aub optimal care. The patients have stopped this far too late.

@RosesAndHellebores and every winter is the worst ever...

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Felix01, I'm sorry that you went through that, nobody should have to and that absolutely has to change.

If you're not disputing mine and other posters' experiences though, are you not angry that, in my case, nurses were sitting around, not giving pain relief, mixing up medication? I am. I'm angry on your behalf.

I wouldn't say that they were incompetent (although their supervisor might), but they were certainly disinterested in patients, on an acute ward. We should both be angry about that.

It was the HCAs doing the lifting, turning, washing, bring food, water, running errands. This they were cheerfully doing, they were lovely.

The nurses on the ward I was on, Felix01, have done you a great disservice, you and every patient that they've ignored/failed to care for.

I am struggling to imagine how someone's feet bleed at the end of a shift unless they are wearing ill-fitting and/or unsupportive shoes to be honest.

M’y DM visited the very competent and involved GP to do this. I went with her. He filled out a ‘lilac form’ which specified the care she consented to, and what she did not want if she was very ill. She was completely in her right mind.

He kept one copy of the form, she kept one and I had one. When, at the age of 92, she had a serious stroke, I gave the form to the doctor in A&E, he continued with the task of ‘ saving her life’. When I pointed out that this was not what she had consented to, and gave him the form he said ‘Oh, we don’t take any notice of that’.

she lived on for another eight months, unable to speak, unable to walk ( though she was at least continent, so spared that indignity). She was furious with me because I had not helped her achieve her expressed wish.

what can we do?

@Felix01 what is bullshit about my post? Are you implying it didn't happen? If so that's incredibly offensive.

Same. There's a strong history of well, every female in my family having dementia, my mum had early onset Alzheimer's
I would like to be able to choose to end my life if I received a diagnosis of dementia

No I wore Clarke's unloops anyway I'm happy I left. I work in a much better environment 8 patients who I can provide the best care take my time good amount of HCAs and I'm paid much better. The NHS will fail because the working conditions are rubbish who's going to want to work there when you can get paid more in Tesco for less stress ?
I'm sure there has been poor care and that's terrible please complain but I was getting annoyed at the assumption that all nurses are lazy etc. I went into nursing to provide good patient care not be in tears because I only have two hands. I will not let my job kill me and I'm much happier now.

I’m sorry I missed that in your original account. I wasn’t defending the NHS, btw, It was a serious question.

@Swissmountains how will switching to a swiss or australian model of funding deal with lazy incompetent staff ?

I suppose the hospital took it for granted that your father would have a phone, and so call himself. I’ve every sympathy, I don’t have a mobile and people look at me as if I have two heads when I admit to this cardinal sin.

memo to self, get mobile phone before becoming ill.

Absolute rubbish and such a generalisation! I am a HCA and all I do is dash about and I see everybody else doing the same!

We need to attract people to the job and unfortunately that will mean paying higher wages. The staffing is absolutely dire and patients will become more complex and greater in numbers as the boomer population starts to retire.

Can I thank you for all your hard work , it's a thankless, relentless job. Well done for keeping going. HCAs are the bed rock of health and social care but don't get the recognition they deserve.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen this is terrible then although maybe different areas are different I recently had a placement where a patient had in their care plan they didn’t want treatment etc and so when they got pneumonia they were not given antibiotics and slipped away as per their wishes

@Katypp what's your agenda ? What do you want out of this thread ?
You keep on banging on about nurses being put on a pedestal. What a joke. On MN we are the most demonised profession apart from nurses.
I'm a qualified nurse of the 30 years. I've always given the best care I can to the point that I've seriously suffered with the effects of stress because it's difficult to do that day in day out. I've worked with 'lazy' nurses who do the bare minimum and get away with it, I've moaned with colleagues about it, moaned at my DP about it but invariably there's very little management can actually do if someone isn't particularly motivated or not a good team player.
I actually think you are creating this bl**dy pedestal. None of us consider ourselves angels. We make mistakes like everyone else. Funnily enough on my ward poor care is weeded out, colleagues are actually pretty quick to pull others up , to speak to managers when things are repeatedly not done. We have a daily safety huddle to discuss incidents including deficiencies in quality of care, we have endless emails from managers telling us that we need to improve on this or that, recent one was pressure area documentation. We are also not afraid to fail students if they are not meeting their objectives.