Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

My dad tried that. Legal directive and everything. It’s called a Living Will. The hospital did not respect his Living Will and we had to fight very hard to allow him to die naturally. I’m sure you can imagine how terrible this was at a time when we were grieving, we had to force them to let him die to respect his wishes, fighting all the way.

This is awful to read. In my home country you can pay a hairdresser to visit you in hospital, she'll bring special equipment to wash the patient's hair in bed.

I wonder if the same thing can be arranged here and in fact if it can be applied to private carers that can wash the patient or help them take a shower.

If they do 10 or 12 in one day it would be worthwhile.

@SpangledShambles that's awful
Mum had a DNR luckily and the doctors agree with us not to treat the sepsis which is what she eventually died from

When I was working on a ward 30, years ago, we had a lady come onto the ward to do peoples hair. Us staff would also wash hair in the bath if needed, and that would be offered once a week. The hospital then had an upgrade with a salon in the entrance. Patients were then expected to get down there, but staff don’t take them, it’s up to relatives if the patient is fit to go down.
Progress hey Q

Nurses certainly aren't lazy and I'm sure you gave your blood sweat and tears to the NHS like many health care workers have. Others members of the public can't imagine the circumstances we work in, it isn't their fault. I wouldn't understand either.

Well just last week whilst in an and e with relative, two male nurses were having a screaming match about who was going to take a break, almost came to blows, all frail people frightened. So let’s not be sexist, eh? There are faults on all sides and also great people on all sides. Indeed, the great people have faults and the not so great people have their good points. Like all of us.

@Felix01 that sounds awful. But our elderly parents who are sick and vulnerable in hospitals can't just choose to leave can they? We have a right to ask the carers to care for them.

Sorry this was to whoever said, then should we carry on with the tories. Reply fail.

Of course you do I'm not denying that. I am pointing out the NHS is failing, more demands are being put on it, staff are leaving and there's no one to replace them. The care crisis will get worse because the job is not appealing and it's getting worse . In my current job one HCA is allocated to one patient to assist with personal care , they take their time on a NHS ward you might have 1 nurse and 2 HCAs for 40 patients many with mobility issues incontinence and need assistance feeding it's unsustainable. That's 6 hands for very very complex needs . We are going to have to pay more tax for more staff, or have to pay for care. You get paid more working at McDonald's Vs care.

Also your complaint goes nowhere, you worry your relative or yourself will be a target, and it’s just completely pointless yet exhausting process at a terrible and gruelling time.

Having documented some of the shit stuff myself and relatives have endured, I also have to say I would gladly have my income cut to help reform and boost the NHS. I believe the politicians are letting it fail so they can trouser lots of money from the US Big Pharma who are waiting in the wings to jump in when the collapse has been completed. At least we can go to hospital and hopefully have our life saved without being bankrupted and jailed.

@RosesAndHellebores

In reference to your post about why nursing degrees are different to other public sectors. I would say it is because student nurses are treated as employees during placement. They are often counted in the numbers when staff are arranged onto a ward and are expected to cover other nurses and HCA'S during their breaks. They too carry out observations and provide care for patients. This often unnecessary for their degree (as the tasks they are assigned are monotonous and unvaried) and does not add real value to their training but unfortunately there aren't enough nurses to provide good quality education during placement. I am a doctor but worked as a health care assistant for a few years and was appalled at how student nurses were treated, it was slave labour.

Yes, when I was on the ward a community nurse was also in, a strong woman who knew what she was seeing was wrong. She objected and they deliberately victimised her to silence her. The culture of the ward was toxic sadly. I don't think it was typical but it can happen and if you're vulnerable you can't risk it.

The equivalent would be a teacher not being paid for a pgce.

It's so difficult for staff and patients right now. I especially feel for the elderly patients at hospital as sometimes it can be so difficult for them to communicate to staff and it breaks my heart knowing the elderly are suffering. Patients definitely do not receive the care they deserve and the overall culture in the NHS hospitals has switched from caring for patients to surviving patients.

For those saying they would get more on an hourly rate in Tescos or McDonalds. Would they also get, paid sick leave of six months, a world class pension and employment rights second to none? I think not.

@Neet429 absolutely. I work 12 1/2 hour shifts. I'm literally on my feet all day apart from doing my paperwork on the computer and my breaks. Don't even have chance to read my work emails. Constantly getting interrupted and asked to help with other patients or do this, that and the other. Please don't tell me that is like a sedentary office job.

when my DSD was in an acute pediatrics ward ( as an teen) and was not allowed out of bed, and anyway was not able to sit up without fainting, she was not washed once by nursing staff, no one cleaned her teeth, no one helped her move and she developed pressure sores , her medication was hardly ever given unless me or her DF were there and we used to go and ask for it. Her tube feeds never on time etc
i washed her and moved her etc but could not be there 24 hrs a day.
I do not buy into the nurses are so much busier these days...what exactly are they doing now that they weren't in the 1960's ? They used to medication rounds, obs rounds, feed patients, move them , wash them etc ....they used to write these things up in charts and accompany the doctors on rounds .
wards ran smoothly, patients were cared for by nurses overseen by a matron or senior nurse
someone come and tell me what is different now ? surely the principles are the same. medication needs to be given, obs done, feeds given etc.
Up thread a nurse said she was now busy keeping people alive ? what exactly does that entail that isn't what nurses used to do ?

My experience with my DSD and the nhs over the last few years is seeing a lot of nursing staff sat at computers or nurses station and a real sense of disorganization on the ward

@RosesAndHellebores have you worked on a ward or in health care ?
You seem to be very opinionated about nurses so suggests insider knowledge.
If not, tell me what job you do and I'll tell you what I know...

I'm a second year student nurse. We are taught that basic personal care is not only a fundamental part of nursing but also one of the most valuable parts of assessing patients. I've been on good wards and bad ones, I've always tried to make sure people can brush their teeth and have a shave as it is always left undone. Every ward I've been on has been good with the basic washing but it is the extras that are forgotten. The HCAs can be bloody wonderful or not, and I've seen nurses baulk at cleaning up patients after an enema or diarrhoea and had to basically force them into helping me (we are supernumerary during training). But I have seen wonderful nurses and HCAs too.

But would they have to get a degree to do that!?! And can someone in Tesco kill a customer if they make an error!?! A degree that is bloody hard to fit around life for anyone retraining too. Nursing is a hard job, yes there are bloody awful nurses out there, but generally they didn't start that way. Years of understaffing and overwork and low staff morale is proven to result in compassion fatigue. It isn't as clear cut as saying people are lazy and just don't care. We also need to ask why.
My nursing course includes an entire 8 week module on personal resilience. I think instead of teaching students they need to be resilient against all the crap, we need to argue that no job should involve such levels of stress we need to make it a significant part of the degree.

I don't know of any other setting where it would be acceptable to tell a service user/customer that you will be too busy to do something in a few hours time

Social housing. Except its not a few hours Its weeks or months.

I was coming on to say exactly that. As part of the restructuring nurses and HCAs will be paid very well, and as a result nursing will become well staffed, well rest and resourced healthcare and a career worth pursuing.

At that point higher standards can be implemented and more accountability to match, and the lazy and rubbish ones will have to find a new job. It is the same with any industry, you pay well and attract the best.

It is far from impossible to achieve this but the public need to buy it, and support it.

The nurses that are working hard, how can they be expected to care about the well being of patients when their mental and physical health is terrible? How can they be expected to look after other people when they are exhausted? It is completely unrealistic to expect anyone to do that.

We need to really look after our nurses, so they have the strength and resources to do their jobs well, in a system that truly supports and values them. In my view we need to start there and stop pouring money into ridiculous concepts like diversity managers that walk around giving out badges. The money has to be spent on front line staff. Free training, housing, incentives. Whatever it takes to change this around.

Everyone will benefit.

Oh and the councils should be forced to clean up leaves from major shopping pathways and ice etc, many of the accidents we see are preventative.

Sorry for typos it sent before i could check it!

higher wages and shifts that are not designed to include overtime every single time.