Are patients not washed any more in hospital?

[Shortkiwi]

I am a nurse of over 40yrs plus. My 93 yr old father has been in hospital for a week. We have visited every day and had to wash and shave him in the afternoon or evening because it hasn’t been done. When I asked if he could be showered one evening, for the next day, I think they showered him but without using soap or shampoo, basically hosed him down from what he reported. His hair was definitely not washed. His teeth have not been cleaned without us doing them. Shaving is definitely not on the agenda. When I was a young nurse it was a given that patients were bathed each day, either in the bathroom or in bed. Teeth/dentures were cleaned and male patients shaved. We were admonished if these things weren’t done. Dad’s ward was very quiet today with several nurses chatting at the nurses station. They were very happy to get us any personal items we didn’t have. I just think if it wasn’t for us he wouldn’t be clean. He actually said, through his dementia, how much better he felt today after we showered him and washed his hair and said it would last him for a while! Which it won’t of course!
We had a list, in the old days, in terms of total patient care, in which we had to tick off items of personal hygiene for every patient in both our theory and practice. I’m sad for those that might not have relatives to attend to personal hygiene these days. It has never been discussed that we would do it, it’s just not been done. Basically, we have had to take the initiative. Years ago there were charts and care plans at the end of the bed, now it’s all computerised. I can excuse the 3 days of hell in A&E but not these last 4 days on the ward. My Dad is not mobile unless he has a lot of help and he is confused.

@Katypp the 9k student fees is a big issue but how does it fairly be differentiated from other degree courses. I understand the reason it was introduced was because so many people were signing up to do nursing degrees and then leaving as soon as they had a degree, because there weren't the same student fees. The same thing happened with teachers. There's no win/win here.

Either nursing and teaching are made free and it is abused or it is free and remains free if the graduates render 5 to 10 years service to health and education. That notion always elicits an outcry. Yet most organisations who sponsor staff to do professional or related quals expect them to pay back the cost of the qualification unless they stay with the company for a specified time. Mine only cost £5k and there was a point where I worked out a cost benefit analysis to determine if leaving for a higher salary made it worth repaying the fees. I appreciate £5k over two years is not the same as £18 to £27k over three years but the 10 hours a week had to be done in my own time and without remission.

@RosesAndHellebores because of how I’m doing mine with it being employer funded I’m sure I have to work in my health board for so many years after completion which is fine as I’ve no desire to go elsewhere currently

I agree about advanced directives but I think a lot depends on overall quality of life. If at 80 I still have all my intellect, am volunteering, going to the theatre, etc, I would want to be treated. If at 80 I am housebound, in pain, struggling to live independently my answer would be different.

I watched my grandmother deteriorate with alzheimers between 80 and 85. The illness started when she was about 70 but she went into a nursing home aged 80 - a specialist geriatric MH unit. By the time she was 80 she could not care for herself, did not know family members, etc. By the time she was 85 she was on a vibrating bed, 4st 5lb, doubly incontinent, etc. My grandmother would have shot a horse or a cow if the vet were more than an hour away if they were suffering. She should never have been kept alive but my mother wouldn't countenance letting her go. It was awful and impacting a lot of lives.

Wales do this, not sure how long it's continuing for but basically if you do a healthcare degree in Wales you won't pay fees as long as you work for 2 years in Wales upon qualification (if you don't do the return of service then you have to pay it back via a student loan). This is for nursing and other allied health professions except medicine. I don't think it will fix all staffing issues, but it would definitely remove a big barrier many have. You have to complete 2300 hours of placement to qualify as a nurse, working that for free (it should be training and you should be completely supernumerary, but sadly many students currently are just used as an extra HCA) is outrageous really.

The most important element of the NHS is staff, not because they're all heroes or amazing or whatever, but because there's no point increasing beds and equipment if there's aren't suitable people to staff them. An increase in staff also makes it more likely the useless ones will be out of jobs, currently jobs get so few applicants that to be honest you'd have to be terrible to not be successful; more candidates and more staff mean higher standards. A win for staff (better pay and conditions), and more importantly better care for patients.

I had the same when my dad was in hospital following g a stroke. Never washed, or shaved, and I would often find him sat in a pool of wee.

That was 30 years ago.

@PoIIyPandemonium it isn't quite that simple. How does one classify essential? Nursing and teaching seems simplistic enough but secondary teaching usually needs a first degree: history, English, maths, geography, physics, chemistry, etc. What about law, lawyers are essential as are accountants. Free provision can only really come hand in hand with some form of limited indenture.

Nurse for 10 years and worked a few places. Washes are ALWAYS done after breakfast. Every patient will be offered assistance unless self caring but even then I make sure they have everything they need.

I'm not going to apologise for not seeing the issue with someone being asked to call the ward and having to wait a bit when it means they have been caring for patients in front of them.

@H2bow I would agree with you if that was, what happened, but it wasn't.
We were asked to call A&E to find out when to collect dad. At that stage we did not know he had been admitted.
I don't think calling for 11 hours is 'waiting a bit' either.
Look, you are constantly trying to minimise our experience by making things up and justify it because nurses busy.
I think it's shocking tbh and indicates just how inhuman the NHS and some of its staff have become

Sadly the NHS is now almost a religion for the mainstream media and it's worshipped without question. Inevitably there are good and bad members of staff in every profession and the NHS suffers from this across all areas.
I have experienced lazy nurses that really should be ashamed of themselves and others that deserve a medal. Sadly I have experienced more of the former than the latter.

All I can say is that what Keir Starmer has said is incredibly refreshing.

My Dad was terminally ill in hospital during Covid - up till the last week we couldn't visit. He had no shaving or teeth cleaning for the whole 6 weeks, and minimal washing. He spent his final week in a hospice where finally proper personal care took place 😢.

I agree but what changed ?
Who decided to change things ?

My mother was in hospital over Christmas. Washed every morning, one morning they’d had an emergency and when I arrived at around 11 I had two separate nurses apologise to say that they hadn’t been able to wash her yet but would get to it soon. They even put moisturiser on her face every day.

Her pads were checked every 4 hours or more often as required; she was moved every 2-3 hours including through the night. The staff helped to feed her and give her drinks as needed and we were also given food and drink if we wanted it.

At every stage she was treated with dignity and respect and I am so grateful that they made her last days comfortable.

I already volunteer more than ten hours a week for another front line area that is in dire straits otherwise I would absolutely go in and help my hospital.

Secondly this problem is going to be a hundred times worse in less than five years. Something has to be done. Urgently.

Do I see Sunak really taking this seriously and understanding the extent? No. He looks very unburdened by the serious state of our hospitals. Do I see Starmer really getting it, no. He thinks he can bail us out with nom doms, all of whom are leaving in droves as we speak.

People hate the idea that we are in real trouble, and always think a different vote will help - it won't. Mathematically given the sheer population numbers it is impossible for us to continue as we are, and the only person speaking any sense or understanding the sheer gravity is Wes Streeting a politician being treated by the NHS and is having a first hand experience right now.

@Katypp I had the same, twice. It took me two days to locate my father once after an A&E admission. I was passed around the switchboard and no one on the wards answered the phone. It was horrendously stressful.

When I did get through, I was told off as he had no clothes, hearing aid (which they then lost and he couldn’t afford to replace), or medication - If I had known where he was, I would have brought it immediately. I even took things to the hospital when I couldn’t get though, but I was told there was no one who could locate him and take them to him.

I understand where you are coming from. One 30 second phone call letting me know what ward he was on was all it would have taken.

Where is the evidence that 'being too busy' is smokescreen? What do you back that up with, other than your own opinion?

I have absolute sympathy for someone who has experienced poor care in the hospital. But as an ex-nurse who left because of the inability to provide safe and compassionate care, I refuse to be held accountable for the failure of the NHS, which in my opinion, is largely due to systemic failures, poor management and massive corruption - and very little to do with ' lazy, bad nurses'

The NHS is not failing; it has failed and is a massive sinking ship. I got out because there are better-paying jobs which much less stress, where you are subject to bile and hatred from a lot of the general public.

As I said in a previous post, I had a similar opinion about nurses as you do - before I came one.

You are right. And no one wants to do the care, why should they? I wouldn’t, it’s hard enough looking after people one loves when they are sick.

I was in hospital for 10 days in October on the acute ward for three days of that. On the ward itself the nurses were hit or miss. They mixed up my medication, gave me somebody else's and it was only when I said that I don't take that, they took it back. Kept forgetting pain relief despite several requests. As PP said, they spent a lot of time at stations and almost none on the ward. As unpalatable as that might be to nursing staff reading the thread, it was my lived experience.

The HCAs though? Phenomenal. Every single one of them. I mentioned them to my doctor on sign out, never mentioned the nurses.

I'm sickened by what is happening to the NHS but I do no understand - during my time in hospital - what the dickens was going on with the nurses in charge?

My Dad is in now and it's the same as you describe.

Yawn I want some MNers to volunteer to see if they could do it better. Try having to wash , hoist , transfer , reposition , feed , toilet up to 15 patients on your own. My feet would bleed at the end of a shift, It's bloody horrendous as soon as I got my pin I went to complex care I now have 8 patients and 8 HCAs and 3 nurses amazing

Yawn at you, Felix01. Dismissing patient's lived experience is obnoxious and your anecdote is completely irrelevant to that.

Maybe you are/were a good nurse, who knows? If so, the nurses I experienced let down their profession and their colleagues.