How to restore my faith and respect in men?

[PotentialMisandrist]

Have NC'd for this as I'm not really sure how this is going to go down.

I’ve reached a point in my life where I have absolutely no respect for men and believe they are completely the inferior sex and bring so very little to the table.

I’m thinking about this as I spent last night with a girlfriend and she was asking about any recent dates etc. I explained I had been on a date recently and threw him back in the pool as he failed to make plans for a 2nd date in time. She felt this was impatient on my part. I told her I’d been chatting to a guy who seems nice but that my only intention with him would just be a FWB arrangement. I could tell she was disappointed and she said she would really love to see me with someone special in my life. I explained that the only thing I really want and need from a man would be sex and potentially someone to look after my recycling and car maintenance as I truly believe men are just useless, bring more hassle than they’re worth and are completely inferior to women in every single way. She was not happy with this ‘sweeping statement’ and it sullied the conversation somewhat.

For context, I’m a 34yr old single Mum of 1. Have a beautiful child, great job, nice house, close with family and generally happy with my lot. Sex is the only thing lacking really.

But today I am thinking about this a bit more. Unfortunately, every single man who has every been in my life, bar absolutely none, has hurt, abandoned or disappointed me from the moment of my birth. I’ve watched my girlfriends be hurt and abused by men and have read so many horrendous threads on here about the behaviour and treatment of men. Ive been raped and assaulted by men in my younger years. On top of that, the rate of sexual assaults in my area has increased exponentially in the last year and just watching what is happening in Iran, Afghanistan etc makes my blood boil and my heart beak for my global sisters.

However, I am the mother of a son, an amazing 13yr old who I love with all my being. A son who I have so far raised to be a wonderful little human who values and respects his female counterparts and has girls as 2 of his best friends. I like to believe that my generation will raise a new generation of men who are by and large far more emotionally mature, respectful and view women as their equals.

But… it can’t be healthy for me the have this view of men surely? Particularly when I am raising one. It amounts to blatant sexism and misandry I guess. Am I a terrible person? How do I restore my faith in men?

You know what @Pumperthepumper I actually totally get your point now!

Thank you for putting it much better than I did😊
I dont know what to say about this:
However most men are not of good character, and therein lies the problem.
I hope it isn't true, but I've missed so many glaring red flags in my life that I probably don't know up from down😐

This is my lived experience too. My father and my grandfathers on both sides (apparently two of my great grandfathers were rotten bastards too - one habitual drunk and gambler, one bigamist with a long history of petty crime) are all shit. Several of my aunts are married to feckless, selfish men who care about nothing but sport and going to the pub and put themselves first in everything.

My brother is a really good egg, and I’ve got a couple of male friends who are lovely, but after three LTRs where I was taken advantage of financially and basically treated like their mother I think I’ve had enough.

Question everything. Bring men and women to account on this issue where each individual fail. And be open and honest. Set your stall out and be unwavering. Hold the line.

it’s really effing draining to have to deal with this Andrew Tate shit. It’s a cancer. It’s tentacles are already reaching my sons. I have to batten it down every day. I don’t need this shit, but it’s not going to win.

it’s just a ‘dead cat bounce’. I really believe that. Walk in my shoes OP and I will walk in yours. Bless you.

That's interesting,Tamarind, my experience has been much like yours. I walk with a cane and have been assisted across roads, had doors held open for me, been helped with a heavy bag. Once the wheel came off my shopping trolley and my shopping went everywhere. Two men stopped, and in the pouring rain stood working out how they could make a temporary repair. While they worked,.I could see that they were enjoying the challenge. When they finished they were beaming with pride. They escorted me home and deposited me on my own doorstep with my shopping intact.
That type of man is more common than the nasty type.

Yep. Men feel empowered by being chivalrous in public. All you two describe is just that and only that. That’s not a get out of jail for free pass. OP is talking about life. Family life. Domestic life. Office life. The daily grind. Men, my sex, are generally not chivalrous in those settings.

You need to spnd time with decent men rather than arseholes. Might be hard though as they will probably avoid you given the vibes you will be giving off.

I’ve been quite fortunate in that 4 of my 5 boyfriends were lovely, and actually the one that wasn’t had issues and cheated at the very end.
But the other 4 were great, I’m not perfect and neither were they. My DH is hard working, kind, funny, warm and brings out the best in me. I’d be worse off without him.
Just trying to offer an alternative view and maybe some hope.

If anything happens to DH I'd never even consider another man. Unless he was a multimillionaire who was averse to prenups.

It's very depressing when I look at my adorable, loving DS and realise that no matter what I do, whatever work and thought I put into his upbringing, however hard I try, the absolute best he can ever be on a personal level - is a man. Fuck, but that's depressing.

I'm fully aware that women are able to do these jobs but in reality given a free choice most women choose not to. So the fact that anyone (happens to be men in the majority) would step up and do the smelly, dirty, physically demanding and dangerous jobs that keep society running is imo worthy of respect and gratitude. Yes during times of war/crisis women have shown themselves able to step up because the men weren't there to do it. Given the choice we can see that most women prefer not to do these jobs. I never suggested that they weren't capable.

I couldn’t disagree more with this, for two reasons. Firstly, “A free choice”? How many women get given “a free choice”? How many girls get told in school that they can’t do this or that because they are girls? How many women have actually tried walking into male-dominated professions and been pushed out - either by direct sexual harassment or by the more subtle ways in which women are forced to work 3 times as hard and be 3 times as good as a man before they are accepted at all? How quickly are women blamed and pushed out of any workforce as soon as the men feel like they aren’t being given enough? How many men have to grow up watching their role models valued only for sex? Etc etc etc. There was a bbc video a while ago which showed how early different treatment for the sexes starts - it actually starts before birth with the obsession for correct colours and toys increasing, if anything, as far as I can see.

The second reason is that men do not do all the dirty smelly hard work. Health is dominated by women at the lower pay bands, as is looking after kids: perhaps changing a baby’s nappy and cleaning up puke doesn’t count I suppose because that’s just women have to do. Women are also traditionally cleaners. I suspect your internal misogyny is showing, in that women’s work can safely be ignored and undervalued wherever women are doing it.

If the only real job that men do willingly that women really won’t if they have a choice is killing and violence in war, then that is entirely to women’s credit.

I think this way of perceiving the world of men is akin to suffering from anxiety on some levels.
I suffer periodically from anxiety, and in those moments struggle to keep personal experiences or things that I have been exposed to through others/ the media out of the forefront of my mind.
Even though I fully accept that life for women is different to life for men, in practically all the world, and has always been so, because I haven't experienced difficulty from individual men, rather than simply "the system", I don't think of men in any other way than neutral, the same as women, until I get to know them.
I completely understand those that do though, but in my opinion it's based on traumatic experiences from men, that I have simply been lucky enough not to encounter.

In 2023 yes a free choice. From what I can see there's no sex requirement to apply for any job/training or educational course. I didn't say there were no women doing those jobs I said a minority of women do those jobs. That indicates that whilst woman are free to do so most women choose not to do them. That in itself is fine but don't then knock the men who are out restoring power to houses after a massive storm as though they do nothing for society (as an example).

Do you have any statistics for numbers of women being actively driven out of the workplace or have you included that because it's evocative? I don't see my female role models being valued for sex. I've never seen Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie being held up as sex symbols or valued only for sex. Maybe in a strange corner of the internet but I've never seen it.

I didn't say men do all the hard, smelly, dirty work did I? I was referencing ways men contribute to society so I referenced areas that they contribute the most. Why would I reference child rearing and healthcare in that context? Although some men do those jobs like some women are plumbers.

I'm not sure why you needed to try and get personal. I've been very balanced in my posts. The OP was looking for a different perspective on men as she said she thought they were inferior and brought nothing to the table. I gave some examples of contributions that men make to society. Why you feel the need to try and twist my words to suggest that I think that woman's work can be ignored is beyond me.

It's not internalised misogyny but it is a disdain for open and hostile misandry. Not because I favour one sex over the other but because as we're taught as children we should be able to respect people. To openly hate someone for an immutable characteristic such as sex, race, etc based on generalisations is wrong. If someone was posting that women are just good for sex and cleaning, that we're the inferior sex and we bring nothing to the table I'd be posting evidence to the contrary on that thread too.

It would help if women were paid the same to do those nasty, smelly and dangerous jobs. I'm dammed if I'm doing a dangerous job for 30% less pay as my colleague. So I don't think that's a good example.

OP. I think you can only change your thinking by dismissing any negative thoughts at the time and look for a positive. I believe that's a normal therapy approach, as in look for a silver lining. Instead of looking at men as a whole, look at the actions of each individual, eg he doesn't know what a hoover is (lazy) but does emotionally support their partner (kind and thoughtful). Tbh I need to do this too.

I don’t see how you can realistically equate irrational male prejudice against women with women’s natural response to things like the sexed nature of crime and the oppression women have historically suffered.

Freedom of choice is not a simple thing of lack of legal objection. I also do not see how anyone can claim that women have free choice in a world that treats the sexes very differently and does so from, as I said, before birth. It is well known that girls encounter prejudice and guidance away from STEMsubjects in education: it is well known that single sex schools improve girls’ access to what a traditionally viewed as boys’ subjects. The year date makes no difference to this kind of prejudice, and not much either to the problem of women being held up everywhere as mostly suitable for sex, with pornography being more easily accessible than ever and the growth of other areas of the sec industry. The use of sex-entertainment in the city has been documented. The impact of sex-linked role models and public expectations of roles has a vast impact on …. expectations of individuals living in that same society. I really don’t see how anyone can deny that as a reality. Marketing would never work if people in a society were never impacted by subtle messaging!

It’s also fairly well-known that recruitment of women into work improves under sex-blinded recruitment methods. As far as women being pushed out of work, I was thinking of the fairly well-documented history of women being deliberately pushed out after the Second World War to make way for returning men (again achieved through a variety of methods, direct rejection of women, indirect rejection through lack of equality, and more subtle messaging through the growth of marketing at that time). I was also thinking of the documented sex-biased loss of jobs over Covid, and also of many suspected moves disfavouring women in the workplace in the time not long gone, before Covid, when there were not enough jobs for the number of people looking.

If you want to call a suggestion that your thinking may be coloured by prejudice rather than pure logic “being personal” then that is your choice. What constitutes a free choice is what we’re arguing about there!

Oops, name change fail.

…but probably an appropriate one!

There are some good eggs out there.

I once had this hulk of a tradesman come round to do a job and he got a bit uppity (the office didn't give him all the info) and I was having a bad day and started crying (would never normally do that). He looked absolutely scared stiff and spent the next five minutes tripping over his words telling funny stories and trying to make me laugh (mainly about his kid). After I composed myself he said don't do that to me again (banter attempt) and that he once saw a bloke crying outside a pub and didn't know how to react 😂 he could have been a wanker but he really tried to help (in his own clumsy way).

It amounts to blatant sexism and misandry I guess

Yep, totally.

Ahh I’m sorry you feel like that op. They are out there (all the men in my family and friendship circle put their wives and families first - they domestically pull their weight and are good dads) but I think women generally need to dial up what they’re prepared to accept in terms of integrity and dial down what they’re prepared to accept in terms of washboard abs and bling.

So many posts on the relationship boards where women have clearly just settled for some useless scrote, or got pregnant too early in the first flush of a relationship or blatantly ignored clearly signalled red flag etc. then years later they’re trapped in a nightmare marriage, often with kids, and their life is miserable.

You need to have a think about what kind of man you are looking for. What are his values? What are his qualities? What are your red lines? Then look for men that match that. Put those inner qualities above the superficial.

I’m quite an unattractive woman so was never inundated with offers but in my life I’ve only ever had loving, caring, sweet boyfriends (some really good looking - and now a wonderful attentive DH of 30 years) because I never flirted, smiled or encouraged anybody who wasn’t caring and sweet. If men were sexist, arrogant or full of themselves they got grey rock from me. Still do!

Really love this topic.
I definitely agree with you. It saddens me and sickens me the amount of violence against women around the world and the amount of men who use women as an object.
Deeply deeply hurts me and I think about it regularly.
I have two sons and have vowed to instil respect and love for women and I hope they don't let me down.
I read on here once I think it was the amount of men even those with wives who don't actually like women and it really got me thinking.
I have come across too many men who think women are there solely to serve them. It infuriates me. And too many women hating men who aren't too obvious about it but have a lot of gender stereotypes which I think are harmful for women. I really hope the next generation of boys and men are not like this.
And what saddens me more is the amount of women I know who are blatant misogynists and don't even know it. But that's a whole different thread.

That was supposed to say "too many men hating women"

My DH is a good man. Probably the kindest person I know. And not in a chivalrous public kind of way just in an ordinary everyday way. I have a chronic disability and DH works long hours and does probably 75% of the childcare and housework. I'm confident my 2 DS's (17 & 14) are good men, my dad and my BIL are both good men - my mum worked shifts when I was growing up and my dad did his fair share of cooking, childcare etc back in the 70s. I'd say 90% of the men I know are decent people - not perfect but then neither are the women I know. If they show me they aren't kind, fair and honest then I don't maintain a relationship with them!

I feel the same, bar some few amazing men in my life. I'd suggest getting involved in caring/charity/ voluntary/community activities. I think you are most likely to find available men (not partnered up or with kids) who are decent people at their core, given how they are choosing to spend free time. Make the activity something you care about - is it helping people, wildlife, politics? You might get lucky and meet someone lovely and likeminded

Oh and btw - DH is 2 inches shorter than me! I was on another thread the other day where 90% of the posters said they would never consider dating a man shorter than themselves! Maybe we as women should look at what qualities we want in our men - I rate honesty over height any day!