How to restore my faith and respect in men?

[PotentialMisandrist]

Have NC'd for this as I'm not really sure how this is going to go down.

I’ve reached a point in my life where I have absolutely no respect for men and believe they are completely the inferior sex and bring so very little to the table.

I’m thinking about this as I spent last night with a girlfriend and she was asking about any recent dates etc. I explained I had been on a date recently and threw him back in the pool as he failed to make plans for a 2nd date in time. She felt this was impatient on my part. I told her I’d been chatting to a guy who seems nice but that my only intention with him would just be a FWB arrangement. I could tell she was disappointed and she said she would really love to see me with someone special in my life. I explained that the only thing I really want and need from a man would be sex and potentially someone to look after my recycling and car maintenance as I truly believe men are just useless, bring more hassle than they’re worth and are completely inferior to women in every single way. She was not happy with this ‘sweeping statement’ and it sullied the conversation somewhat.

For context, I’m a 34yr old single Mum of 1. Have a beautiful child, great job, nice house, close with family and generally happy with my lot. Sex is the only thing lacking really.

But today I am thinking about this a bit more. Unfortunately, every single man who has every been in my life, bar absolutely none, has hurt, abandoned or disappointed me from the moment of my birth. I’ve watched my girlfriends be hurt and abused by men and have read so many horrendous threads on here about the behaviour and treatment of men. Ive been raped and assaulted by men in my younger years. On top of that, the rate of sexual assaults in my area has increased exponentially in the last year and just watching what is happening in Iran, Afghanistan etc makes my blood boil and my heart beak for my global sisters.

However, I am the mother of a son, an amazing 13yr old who I love with all my being. A son who I have so far raised to be a wonderful little human who values and respects his female counterparts and has girls as 2 of his best friends. I like to believe that my generation will raise a new generation of men who are by and large far more emotionally mature, respectful and view women as their equals.

But… it can’t be healthy for me the have this view of men surely? Particularly when I am raising one. It amounts to blatant sexism and misandry I guess. Am I a terrible person? How do I restore my faith in men?

@AnchovyInCowlNeck I feel you, I've just mentioned to another PP, it's not that I'm not open to meeting men and I do put myself out there again and again like you, but every last one of them end up being complete tosspots. Couple this with my horrendous experiences with all the non romantic male relationships, I've just reached a point of believing that men are completely and utterly incapable of being decent human beings, loyal and loving partners and effective parents.

@FuckNuggets I really and truly believe that good men are the exception and I'm glad to hear you're lucky to have a number of those exceptional men in your life x

The hurt that men have done and continue to do to the entire human race is abhorrent, their own sex included. The heart break I feel when I watch the systemic oppression of women in countries like Iran and Afghanistan is genuine. The anger I feel when yet another rapist bastard gets a piss poor sentence for destroying a woman's life, sense of self and safety is so strong. The absolute hatred of those who stand up offer character references like 'He was a lovely man', 'He was a fantastic football coach', 'A great employee' etc in defence of those accused of heinous crimes against women such as a rape and murder makes my blood boil. I mean, how many women have started wars? How many women have trafficked men to be used and abused for sex. My god, I could go on and on but I'll stop there.

@JunglePug totally agree with you, would much prefer to meet potential partners through real life interactions and I have the majority of the time. I think the older I get the harder it is to meet people in the wild though! 😅

I hear you OP. Every single male I've had in my life have made sure any woman serves them in some way, women are never equal. I look around and it appears to be the same for others I know. The only male who seemed to pull his weight (did a lot of the physical stuff of maintenance and gardening) was my grandfather but even he thought childrearing and cleaning was womens work.

Its not about hatred and superiority but more whats the point, they only bring you grief.

Thanks @Pixiedust1234 it's actually quite nice to know that my feelings aren't exactly unique and I might not be a terrible person for feeling the way I do, even though my negative feelings and lack of respect for men are greater than most on this thread.

It is misandry I'm afraid but at least you recognise that. I would want to change before my son picked up on it.

I'd start with a realistic reflection on what men in general bring to the table of society. The majority of sanitation workers who build and maintain the sewers, etc are men. The majority of plumbers, electricians, bricklayers, engineers, builders, etc who build and maintain houses, schools, hospitals, shops etc are men. The majority of people who build and maintain our roads are men. The majority of workers who maintain our water ways, electrical grid, etc are men. The majority of workers on oils rigs, down mines etc are men. If war broke out tomorrow I can imagine that the majority of people joining up would be men.

Personal experiences are just that. I'm sorry for the experiences that you've had but it wouldn't be enough for me to sustain views like yours especially as I'm raising two sons.

Well...your views might be more extreme but maybe we would feel the same as you if we had lived your life. I only had my light bulb moment with DH last year after thirty years. Every professional I spoken to since had told told me he is abusive, mentally, emotionally and financially. For the previous 29 years i thought I was the wrong one and he was a nice and kind man to put up with me. I have felt your rage on and off this year especially when hearing about Iran and Afghanistan.

Most of the men I know are perfectly decent people - not violent, abusive or particularly attached to old fashioned gender roles. However, the ones in long term heterosexual marriages still inevitably end up disappointing their wives, at the very least. I think men generally just don't have what it takes to make women happy. If you've come to understand that and can live happily without them, then all good. Get a fuckbuddy if you really need one.

Your DS hasn't gone through puberty yet so is a boy not a man. Once he does, it would seem statistically unlikely that he's going to be the one to buck the trend, and your hopefulness about "the next generation" more likely to be rose tinted glasses than anything real. Bear in mind he won't be showing his whole self to you (particularly his sexual self, once it emerges), and from this point onwards there will be more and more limitations on your influence over him. Of course you can raise him to be decent but he'll also be formed by many other influences, along with his innate nature. Pretty soon he'll stop caring what you think about most things.

I know @Allthingspeaches , I do have guilt for these feelings because of the fact that I am raising a son. I do however think that we (mostly women obviously) are raising a much better generation of men and am hugely hopeful for the future of the male population.

And I hear you completely about the practical things that men bring to society in terms of building infrastructure (can't say I agree with the point about war though, it's men that cause wars in the first place!). I do take this on board but is this enough? Does the good they do in providing infrastructure etc counter all of the horrendous treatment of women at the extreme level and the pure incapability of being a kind, thoughtful, loving partner and parent at the not so extreme level? I'm really not sure it does.

'I think men generally just don't have what it takes to make women happy.'

This is a really interesting thought @RunRunRunSomeMore - why do you think that is?

@VyeBrator I'd prefer if you didn't call me names in such an aggressive manner and weren't so condescending. There are ways of getting your point across without name calling posters, particularly when I think I've been nothing but cordial to everyone who has taken the time to respond and also agreed with some of your points.

If you don't have interest in helping me work through my thoughts and feelings with calm conversation then please feel free to just go off to another thread.

I think that you have to be aware of sliding into generalisations using terms like 'pure incapability'. Do you honestly think that there are no decent fathers or partners throughout the world? Anecdotally I'm aware of far more completely toxic mothers but I wouldn't suggest that no woman is capable of parenting well.

I think my main point about the societal contribution (I'm glad you acknowledge that btw) was that it is one thing you can respect about men in general. If you can accept that one point of respect then maybe you can train yourself to see and accept further evidence of positives about men.

I do think that lots of parents of boys are actively thinking about how best to parent them and how to get the best into them. We don't want them to be subsumed in self hatred though.

Misandry doesn’t exist in any real sense, so I’d be wary of using it in relation to being ‘the same as misogyny but with the sexes reversed’.

I hear you @Allthingspeaches maybe I need to really actively think about and try to recognise other positive things that I can respect about men in day to day life. It's just so hard when my only experience of men has been disappointing at best and traumatic at worst. Even when I look at some of the men in my circle who seem perfectly nice to socialise with, it's ruined because I know they are shit partners, lazy parents, allow their female partners to bear much of the day to day grunt of family life etc. Every last one of the men I know, partners of friends etc are disappointing in some way or another.

It's honestly upsetting, I'd love to love men. I'd love to be positive about maybe meeting a life partner and feeling loved and appreciated. I genuinely don't want to feel this way but when I'm completed surrounded by walking talking examples of how truly terrible men can be it just seems really difficult.

I absolutely will make a conscious effort to try and see the good in men more though, it might help, thank you x

I don't understand @Pumperthepumper, misandry is certainly a thing, defined as prejudice or contempt for the male sex no?

No. It only exists in relation to misogyny, and it doesn’t have any real-world connotations.

Sorry @Pumperthepumper I'm still not understanding, could you elaborate?

I don’t know how I can make it any clearer. Can you think of any way misandry impacts men? In the same way misogyny has a huge societal impact, like the gender pay gap or in violence?

@Allthingspeaches well yes there are mainly men in those jobs but doesn’t mean women can’t do those and we should be ever si grateful for them to do that.
Women have shown many times, esp during wars where the ‘men were sent away’ they can indeed deal with all that pretty well.

But the issue imo isn’t what men can do or what positive role they have in society.
Its all the bad stuff they do.
And I actually don’t believe it’s a small proportion either. Not when 80% of 18yo have been sexually assaulted.
i also don’t believe a majority of men are taking in the mental load at home or are sharing hw and parenting 50/50 etc….

if your expectations are similar to @RunRunRunSomeMore and you think
Most of the men I know are perfectly decent people - not violent, abusive or particularly attached to old fashioned gender roles
then maybe. If you have higher standards than ‘nit being abusive’, then no. I haven’t met many men like that.

I completely empathise with what you have said here, OP - whilst I haven't had nearly the same level of personal negative experiences with men that you have, I have had similar thoughts as to the hopelessness of the ways in which men often habitually treat the people around them. These realisations really hit me around 18, have only really strengthened since, 12 years on.

I have had two long-term relationships with men in that time, one of whom was very abusive, and the other was a lovely person but at times still 'useless' and deficient in the way men often are - the familiar story of the passive, male partner who 'doesn't see' the issues and wants reminders to do basic amounts of emotional labour etc. you get the idea.

I've concluded (and yes, broad generalisation coming here...) that men just aren't really good enough - and it's not necessarily their faults as individuals (although, sometimes it definitely is), it's the combination of the way the way society is, the way they are, and who knows what else - many things going on.

Have you ever heard of the phrase, "deek is abundant and low value" - this is obviously said as a joke, but it's honestly quite resonant for me!

I don't have any answers, but I don't think you're weird at all for thinking in this way. It actually makes complete sense given the state of things, and based on your experiences. Whether it's helpful to you or not is another question.

am hugely hopeful for the future of the male population
yes, humans will adapt to the prevailing circumstances, that's why the species has been successful (depending on how you define success of course) ultimately we will reshape ourselves to fit into new social environments. We are always in flux, shifting and adapting, we will make it work. In some ways the power struggles between men & women are part of what drives us all forwards.

Reading through the endless posts on MN about lazy, feckless men who contribute the bare minimum to family life whilst the women runs around trying to keep all the plates spinning does lead me to conclude that a great many women would be happier single. And just for the record, I am also of the opinion that females are most definitely the superior sex. Nothing would make me live with a man again.

I’ve had mostly very good relationships and know many decent men whose company I enjoy, but I still think as a sex class they’re pretty rotten, and all but useless.

Apologies if I've missed it, but how was your relationship with your dad?

I only ask because my dad is fantastic. He is truly one of those people who is entirely moral. He is very gentle, very caring.

It's also a source of Freudian amusement that my husband is the spit of him in character and in looks (their student cards especially eerie). I didn't make an excellent choice of husband so much as get a strong impression of what a good and lovely partner looked like and followed that example.

(which isn't a given - my sister has married a man very unlike my dad, to the extent that he abuses her)

Just curious that you haven't mentioned this first and most formative male relationship...?