So the NHS has long gone

[DarkKarmaIlama]

At what point do we think the government will do something about the massive elephant in the room the NHS has fucked off out of the window and is never returning.

This healthcare no man’s land is quite frankly terrifying. What are your predictions on this? All I keep reading is “it will get worse”. Can it actually get any worse?

A few things wrong with your post.

1. Family reunification visas do not exist in the UK, you probably mean Adult Dependent Relative Visa. People here on these visas can not claim disability or access public funds.
2. Immigrants generally have less health needs, on average.

Nursing applications have dropped 40% nationwide this year. Obviously ucas final date isn’t here yet but comparing figures at this point this year to the same point previous years.

Often in these families the female members of the family don't work or will give up work to care

Sounds wonderful. I bet they love caring for people with complex medical needs who should have professional care.

I agree. Same experience where I live in the North of Scotland. The population density that exists in England just isn't the same.

I just don't get how moving to any form of paid / slightly private propped up system (in whatever form) will enable...

1. A huge increase if staff trained and able to fulfil a health service that people are in some way paying for and will expect more
2. The infrastructure to deliver this - most health service building are falling apart - are they all going to be rebuilt quickly to provide better services that people will be happy to pay for?
3. How anyone with pre-existing conditions will get access to healthcare? No insurance will cover them and their need for healthcare will outstrip their finances in a week.
4. Are people really going to pay out in some way to have babies delivered?
5. What about people who have no money? What about people who have a bit but not enough - won't it just be like private dentistry and people stop going so we'll end up with an oral cancer epidemic costing way more instead?

Will they lower taxes to allow people the money to pay for insurance / copays etc

I just don't get how it won't take about 100 years to solve any of the above in order to move from what we have now to a functioning private / semi private systems. Surely people need to be insured from birth to cover all eventualities which rules out everyone currently alive with a health problem!

Several PP have commented that healthcare seems to be better in Scotland. I've certainly had prompt interventions when required, and no difficulty getting through to GP surgery

The reports of people waiting 15hrs for an ambulance etc all seem to be in England (or at least, that's all I've seen)

It's not all of England, either.
It completely depends where you live how good or otherwise your local services are. Mine seem fine. Can still get to see a GP (same day or at least within 48 hours), but I am aware this is not the case in many places.

I am a newly qualified HCP who has worked in another industry. I trained in a hospital and was shocked at how badly organised the system is and just how much money was wasted. There was no joined up thinking at all between departments, and it was rather eye opening. This was also the experience of all my fellow students who trained in the NHS.

Never had a problem with it always had brilliant service. Can't stand people that knock it and moan about it when they should think themselves bloody lucky to have it. Bore off

Barnett Formula? Scotland is funded higher per head for all public services.

Scotland gets roughly £2000 per head more in funding a year. I should bloody hope things are not as bad as in England.

I don't begrudge Scotland this money, they're only 5million people, compared to England at 55million, so it's neither here nor there.

I do find it a huge shame that Scots attribute their extra goodies and better services to the SNP and their fantastic management and not the fact they have more pocket money to spend.

It might not be gone but it’s not working. FIL just waited 2 hours in the street in freezing, wet conditions for an ambulance and then a further 2 hours to get out of the ambulance at A&E. There was no other way for him to get there as he’s broken his hip and can’t get into a car. As he finally got out, the other ambulances were offloading patients in to mattresses on the floor in A&E so they could get back to work and he heard a call come in asking if an ambulance could travel over and hour to a cardiac arrest. That’s too late! It’s seriously frightening.

So, funding does appear to be at the root cause of the NHS's problems in England & it can function properly in the modern world.

We spend 10.2% of GDP (2019) on the NHS, we spend overall 12.2% of GDP on healthcare . France spend 11.06%, Germany 11.7%, Italy 8.67%, Japan 10.74% Spain 9.13%, USA is 16.7%. 2019 figures. Italy and Japan have substantially older populations.

Arguably the NHS isn't massively underfunded, we just don't spend it well and perhaps people in the UK don't have good health habits re food, smoking, drinking and exercise.

This is interesting, US is surprising but agree on overall health

Yep and that's not fair either!

Don't know why you're quoting me for that question, but maybe it's because they don't get paid enough? That's not incompatible with NHS Scotland being better funded... It's all relative.

Also re: Scottish funding and our Barnett formula "pocket money" , high earners do actually pay more tax in Scotland (as a high income household, I'm happy to do so).

Yup still here. But will admit that I struggled today with over 60% of my staff off ill and the number of referrals just going up and up. I don't know what to do any more.

I'm based in Wales and our infrastructure is shite - the reason we had longer Covid restrictions really as our hospitals have less slack/resilience than other parts of the UK. The NHS kept my mother alive (lifetime chronic condition) and also nearly killed her on numerous occasions across multiple hospitals and trusts.

We need a long hard luck at the service we want and how we achieve that. I'd rather we start looking at options to pay rather than treat the NHS like some holy cow that we can't even talk about. The system here is either broke or limping along and I'm sure we can somehow do better. I'd also like a dentist please.

Agree with this. I’d make it more equal

It's frightening that the NHS doesn't seem to be able to provide the care we want.
But...
My last contact, a few weeks ago, was when I presented at A&E reception with severe symptoms suggesting the possibility of a heart attack. Within fifteen minutes I'd had an ECG, bloods and was on my way for a chest X-ray. I was in and out in four hours, and felt that all the issues had been properly addressed. That was the NHS and I couldn't have asked for more. The system had changed since my previous experience (February - different problem, also potentially life-threatening). If they are making changes that lead to outcomes like this, they are doing well.

The NHS hasn't gone. I'm 15 months into a 60 month treatment for breast cancer. The care I receive has been timely, attentive, well organised and professional all the way through.

I support the nurse's strike absolutely, but to say the NHS has gone and is never coming back is untrue.

I will be voting Labour at the next election

Wow
my mum was 18 hours for a suspected heart attack.

This.
As a nurse of over 30 years I see too many people living too long, often in a very poor state at great expense.
And why do other taxpayers have to start contributing to the care of others in care home for example, who still have £23k in the bank? Reduce the thresholds massively. If care takes almost all our savings then so be it. Redirect tax payers money elsewhere. We can't afford sentiment.