So the NHS has long gone

[DarkKarmaIlama]

At what point do we think the government will do something about the massive elephant in the room the NHS has fucked off out of the window and is never returning.

This healthcare no man’s land is quite frankly terrifying. What are your predictions on this? All I keep reading is “it will get worse”. Can it actually get any worse?

Just to add nurse training is free under the Scottish governments higher education policy.

It's the non-acute services that are becoming non existent. GP surgeries, first point of care (that isn't A&E), surgery perceived as non essential etc

Asking someone in their 70s to wait three years for a hip replacement is essentially telling them it isn't available on the NHS.

There needs to be an acknowledgement that the chronic under investment and lack of planning has decimated parts of NHS services.

We can't simply switch overnight to a better system that relies on forward planning and investment. That can be a long term goal but doesn't help patients for the foreseeable.
So what happens in in the immediate future? Private healthcare. Because there really is no choice right now.

People in mental health crisis states put a massive amount of pressure on GP’s, A & E, and in patient units, as well as police ambulance, CAMHS and adult social care.

To reduce this though, firstly the education system needs to be better funded, adequate SEN diagnosis and support, children’s social care funded with enough skilled and supported staff, CAMHS funded to reduce waiting lists… and so on.

The NHS doesn’t exist in isolation.

When all the budgets are separate though, people are just pushed from one service to another, or even from one department to another within the same service.

So the person in need becomes someone else’s problem/someone’s else’s cost/someone else’s statistic or missed target.

We need joined up services, joint responsibility and early intervention. But that doesn’t suit governments with four years in office who are focused on personal popularity and profit.

Labour made a massive start with the Sure Start centres. Then the conservatives undid it all again.

There are so many issues, too many to list.
I know of outstanding students that would make amazing doctors, but the bar is too high to study medicine, they could attract so much more talent based in the UK if they simply had more space and more courses to study medicine. Ditto for nursing.

The NHS is not starved of anything, it sucks up multi billions and it is a bottomless pit I am afraid. We need to pay much more (not on the cards) or move to an Australian or Swiss model asap. We need many more medics and they need to be well paid and well rested for this system to work properly.

Most people know it is not sustainable any longer. Even Labour know this, I greatly admire Wes Streeting on this, and saw him for the first time as a potential leader. It takes some guts to tell the truth and grasp the nettle and he is the first to do so.

We have 70 million ageing souls, do the maths. We can't continue, now we need an honest conversation.

I've had a number of health issues over the last few years, and my care has been timely and efficient. I've also been amazed at how all the HCPs' "bedside manner" has become so much more respectful and caring in recent years (eg with the way gynae examinations have been conducted). It's really weird seeing so many horror stories on here as it just doesn't match with my experience. I'm very grateful for that and wonder if I've just been very lucky 🤷.

I'm in Scotland, and wonder if the NHS is better funded here, or whether HCPs are just buckling themselves to provide excellent care.

I think it's on its way out personally. The biggest struggle will be salaries because people rightfully won't want to work for less than they can get elsewhere. Tax will have to keep going up but they focus too much on income & we don't have enough of them with the ageing population.

@Venetiaparties absolutely

There seems to be huge differences between what individual Doctor's surgeries offer around here. Exh phoned for an appointment, the surgery could offer nothing in three weeks but instead booked him into the out of hours service for the following day. At our surgery, not two miles away, they are still offering same day or next day appointments if you phone or fill in the e consult. Not sure why there should be such a difference between surgeries though.

I think perhaps we need to do the basics better (there's so much luck involved - no-one should be paying extra for having the bad luck to experience a particular condition) and have a social insurance system for the rest. What we should be able to achieve with 70 million people is some economies of scale on the most frequently required treatments.

I feel that investment in paediatrics (physical, mental, SEN) and physiotherapy would pay off hugely in terms of avoiding cost to other parts of govt.

The Singapore style 'health account' would help with visibility of what it all costs.

Another thought
Mum constantly makes noises like she's in pain
Turns out she isn't, it's just a noise...I think this might be a post stroke thing?
She is still extremely wobbly and this morning, she said she she was so dizzy she could barely stand, but she seemed normal
Then after a lie down, she's fine

Someone said to me "you need to think of her as being as fragile as a baby". That's why I hoped she'd have a daily carer of some kind but the private carer thought she didn't need one.

Wrong thread srry!

NHS is not feasible anymore..

People are living longer..
Vast swaves of our population are feckless, degenerate entitled parasites.

Smoking, drinking, fast food, kebab

We've been importing immigrants from the third-world and Eastern Europe for decades. they use the NHS disproportionately more than natives.

Why would you leave your crippled old Granny back in Pakistan when you can get her over here via family reunion visa.. and claim disability and get free healthcare?

We need to transition to a PAID INSURANCE system where people are held accountable for their health issues.

@Petersonuk how would that work for people who are no longer working?

Why are the nurses striking then in Scotland?

I just had 9 months of maternity service and amazing care during labour and afterwards. We have since had many visits from midwives and health visitors supporting us. Only thing I paid for was a £5 scan pic. They are not gone.

Load of bullshit , I'm a HCP I'm white British. It's white British people who put their relatives in care there's even a thing where families dump the elderly on A&E at Christmas time so they don't have to look after them. They will say their relative is confused etc. Immigrant families generally do most of the caring themselves well the female members do .

We've been importing immigrants from the third-world and Eastern Europe for decades. they use the NHS disproportionately more than natives.

Not only racist but untrue.

What data exists suggests that immigrants use the NHS less than UK citizens, which makes sense as so many of them are young and healthy workers, students, etc.

Immigrants also make up more than 10% of the NHS workforce and they pay taxes like everyone else, in addition to extra health surcharges as part of their visa.

Immigrant families generally do most of the caring themselves well the female members do

What do those families do when their elderly members need the specialised care that a family can't provide? or sorry, what do those women do when their elderly members need the specialised care that a family can't provide?

I don’t think it’s gone, on a personal level my NHS appointment was quicker than the private option, and its funding has been rising.

But the demands have increased over that. Whether we can match the needs with an older model and changing demographic is a big question

Indeed. Outcomes for people on lower incomes seem better in those countries, too, so who are we trying to fool?

Like i said.. people are living longer.. More people needing care

Can’t see the bold quote post but I’d be interested in data to back it up as it’s probably the other way around with staff being from o/s not using it, so agree with the reply

But I do agree with this

If you look at in a completely dispassionate and logical way, the NHS has been too successful at keeping people alive. Now we have to address the social care burden.

I work in this area and trust me there are very little ethnic minorities in long term care placements as a proportion. immigrant families tend to muddle along they don't granny dump in A&E. Often in these families the female members of the family don't work or will give up work to care.

They’re waiting for people to start begging for an American style system. Then they’ll bring it in and be praised for doing so. 🤷‍♀️

I’m not sure any party will win on this. People are really protective of the NHS