So the NHS has long gone

[DarkKarmaIlama]

At what point do we think the government will do something about the massive elephant in the room the NHS has fucked off out of the window and is never returning.

This healthcare no man’s land is quite frankly terrifying. What are your predictions on this? All I keep reading is “it will get worse”. Can it actually get any worse?

Friend of mine who had several stents in his heart a couple of years ago went for one of his routine scans last week and checks to see if everything's still in place and working fine. The scans indicate problems and he's booked for a triple heart bypass in January. There's an example elsewhere on this board of someone seeking fertility treatment before they've even started trying to conceive.

Go figure.

NHS isn't gone and quite frankly that's an insult to NHS staff working through some of the toughest times in history to keep it going.

Something needs to change but as a country we can't afford it. We all need to contribute more if we want it to be 100% free at point of use with short waiting times. But rightly the majority don't want to do that.

Personally I would like to see it invest in ground breaking surgery and cancer treatment that very few would be able to afford privately. I would have no problem with increasing prescription costs, charges to see GP at times we want (I.e you want a free appointment no problem that will be at X date and X time, oh that doesn't suit we'll be have tomorrow at 3pm for £20 etc). You could also do mandatory PA and ANP appointments before you are allowed a GP appointment. The ability to pay for side rooms etc would also be a bonus.

Fine for inappropriate A&E attendance if you don't have a 111 reference 1st. I.e present with a heart attack no problem symptoms are obvious, present with an issue you have had for years and no reference that £400 please. Remove the requirement to discharge to a place of safety, if they are fit for discharge the responsibility is passed to family or in extreme cases the local authority who have 24hrs to find somewhere for them to go. My granddad spent three extra weeks in hospital whilst the local authority argued over who was responsible for the bill.

Removal of minor surgery procedures from the NHS I know a GP has just removed a wart for someone!!!

any system will fail without enough planning and funding.
There are plenty of people all around the world who are being failed by their healthcare systems. The poorest, the least educated and those from immigrant/diverse backgrounds are failed the most. For these people I hope the NHS stays and is invested in.

I work in a very unsexy front line part of the NHS and am surrounded by people doing their absolute best in dire circumstances.

I am very sorry for those who have been let down by their care, or lack of it. Please know that the vast majority of NHS staff really do care and really are at the end of their internal (and external)resources.

Funding can be found for what we want to pay for ........as a country we need to demand what we need form this and every government,

I'm still working for, and still believe, in the NHS.
Myself and my colleagues go over and above every day to ensure that as few of our patients are affected by the lack of investment as possible.
Whilst there are still those of us who are prepared to believe in it, and fight for it, it will survive.

Nhs worker here and we're plodding on, it's rough but we try 🤷🏻‍♀️ the service just has too many people using it our waiting lists are just too long. The service in my experience is mis used people using it when they don't need it or using it wrong

This. When I lived in France we got excellent health care. We paid - it was about €2000 euros a year for DH and I. I think most people would be prepared to pay at least something if we could guarantee good health care. We could have a sliding scale of fees.

I think many people haven't travelled outside of the UK and used other healthcare systems. Ours isn't the best in the world it's frankly a bit crap for the taxes we pay. I fell ill in another country , travel insurance paid but it wasn't even a big bill . There was just 3 patients to 2 nurses much better ratios and they didn't look burnt out. I didn't have to wait. The hospital was lovely such a striking difference to NHS care.

I'm still getting great care from consultants in the NHS
GP is hit and miss but haematology and dermatology have been excellent
They're still supplying me with tends of thousands of pounds worth of medication yearly, all free of charge. I can't fault them

I wonder why we are tamely accepting the narrative that the NHS is unworkable. It isn't.
But has been deliberately underfunded and under resourced for decades. By all politicians, not just Tories.
Bits of it that were seen as profitable have been sold off to the highest bidders - remember PFI, or Profit From Illness?
We are all being sold a huge lie.
Please wake up and start getting angry about the blatant theft of one of the best things this country (that's all of us, btw) owns.

Something needs to change but as a country we can't afford it. We all need to contribute more if we want it to be 100% free at point of use with short waiting times. But rightly the majority don't want to do that
I disagree that the majority of people won't want to pay anything. Most people are aware that the free system just isn't working any more.

you could change to any system you like tomorrow,

It wouldn't help, the people just aren't there
It's not just money.......

The government will starve it and run it to the ground to prove to us that it's beyond help. I wouldn't be at all surprised the investors (read vultures) are already lining up to tear it up and privatise it. Some probably linked to the the lords and ladies who got rich on PPE.

Crying shame.

Other countries pay higher wages so aren't having the same recruitment crisis. Nursing is a respected profession in the US and Australia.

It depends where you are a bit, some trusts are functioning better than others for various reasons, but yes the level of care is suffering and it will continue on a downward decline unless there is some serious intervention soon. Staffing is the most important bit of the NHS, without adequate numbers it can't provide what it needs to and yet the government is doing nothing to stave the thousands of HCPs leaving and the huge gaps. I think a hybrid model is the answer personally but no government will dare suggest it.

There's a shortage of nurses in these countries though (not sure about other HCPs). Some states in the US are desperately short despite the fact they get much better pay, I think the pandemic made a lot reevaluate their career choice and also the backlog has been intense.

Not being aweful but the student loan system exists for this reason, the rest of HCP have been paying back student loans for years. If nurses get bursaries so should all HCPs.

It used to be the case that all degrees with placements were given a bursary and had no fees, pretty sure this is still the case in Wales. There are tonnes more nursing apprentiship type roles now for those who can afford to start as a HCA.

I'm pretty sure it still exists.

I've just started working for the NHS. My role is a newish one, devised to take the pressure off GPs, nurses and other workers. We get a huge amount of referrals from the aforementioned and would love to help everyone - when it comes down to it though, our jobs may be useful but a lot of the time we can't provide what we want to - what the GPs want to. It's a cycle of too little money spent in strange ways

Fix social care and you would immediately alleviate a massive chunk of the strain on the NHS. If there aren't enough people leaving through the backdoor, then there won't be enough room for the people queuing at the front.

But the only way you are going to do that is with a lot more money. And someone had to pay for it.

30 years ago life expectancy was a lot lower, and people died faster from a range of diseases. Now we have people living longer, which is great, but they are living longer with ever increasing complex needs that requires more input from social care services. So now we have a situation where there is a huge social care burden, but we're still financing it like it's 30 years ago.

It is no longer the case that if you have paid taxes all your life then you have "paid your way" for the services you need in later life.

Because unless you were a higher rate tax payer all your life, your contributions won't even come close to the costs involved.

If you look at in a completely dispassionate and logical way, the NHS has been too successful at keeping people alive. Now we have to address the social care burden.

In the short term, we need a huge injection of cash into the social care system, either by taxing the rich more, or by asking the people who use those services to pay more, which obviously won't be popular. It is unfair to ask the average working Joe to pay even more when they are already struggling.

In the long term, we either need to accept much higher taxes across the board, or make personal contingency plans to find our care in old age.

Until this issue is resolved, the NHS will continue to struggle.

If you look at in a completely dispassionate and logical way, the NHS has been too successful at keeping people alive. Now we have to address the social care burden.

This is very true.

If we had a more sensible system, that matched the needs of our population, perhaps more people would want to work in it? And retention would be better?

The presumption that you have to be terribly grateful (even if the service is non existent in your area, poor or even dangerous) is very problematic, as is treating a state provided, tax payer funded service like some kind of secular religion.

I don't want to have to "believe in" the NHS. It's not the 1940s any more and even back then it was a compromise - but better than what it replaced. Now, I'd like us to pick from the best elements of the other developed country systems and stop being so childish as to believe we are the only country with universal coverage, free at the point of use.

the problem is the post op care
they need to fund convalescent homes and care workers so people can leave hospital safely

@Grumpybutfunny

I am sure they did didn’t they? It’s unlikely mature students will study nursing now without a bursary, particularly with the cost of living crisis. The 5k currently on offer doesn’t go far. Personally I think the bursary system worked well and it pretty much paid for itself.

Who in the right mind wants a student loan to train to be a nurse whilst working for free on placement? Younger people perhaps but it did pay to have some life experience going into nursing. (Nothing against fresh nurses coming out of school we need fresh and energetic nurses of course).

Let’s be clear here as a NHS nurse who has also worked in Australia my experience has been that I am way more respected in this country than in Australia. As for higher pay let’s not forgot the almost double standard of living for everyone in Australia so not even comparable.
Let’s see who will pay insurance for the use of an ambulance or as it currently is in Oz $500 for a call out. Basic health insurance was approx £120 a month for a family of four and that only included up to £500 worth of dental treatment a year, anything else you had to
pay for.
Also for those not aware that Scotlands NHS is run separately from
England so again not comparable.
In the last year I have had emergency inpatient care, faultless from start to
finish. My df had years of excellent care from O/P and latterly excellent end of life care and now my DM has been seen within the Scottish governments target for breast cancer care of
under two weeks from identification to consultation.
The area I work
in has lengthy waits for some aspects of care but again emergencies are seen within 7 days.
The system is not broken at all but COVID has skelped its arse and we are still playing catch up.
However people misuse services or have self diagnosed or simply have no idea of how healthcare actually works, I do love it when Joe Public disagrees with my two degrees and 32 years experience because that’s not what FB or Google says 🙄
I am genuinely sorry that some people have a less that good experience but that’s just their experience and not subjective.
Hundreds of people week in week out fail to attend arranged appointments how on earth do we expect people to willingly pay insurance/ for treatment.
of course them their will be the brigade who shout but I pay so therefore I expect blah blah.