Parents - we need to do something drastic, don't we??

[BrianOfBritain]

Another report about the huge number of teens with mental health problems in the press today. So many of the adolescents I know are anxious, low, self-harming, self-loathing, etc. And almost all the parents - myself included - think phones and social media are partly to blame. But instead of changing it much, we all struggle on with them, saying "well, I'd better let him/her, or he/she won't have any friends" or whatever. We look to systems of online protection to "keep them safe". But this won't even scratch the surface, I suspect. Why are we putting up with/going along with this? I seriously think we might need some kind of revolution, where thousands - millions - of parents act together, pethaps to get rid of smart phones for kids altogether. Millions all going back to old style non-smart tech, all at once so kids are in it together and won't be left out?

Of course the technocracy have more and more ways to get us - and more importantly our kids - most and more hooked. But if we acted together, surely we could step away from it on behalf of our kids. Surely we can do SOMETHING? I suspect it may have to be drastic, to try to turn this juggernaut. Are there any initiatives to get lots and lots of us together to sort this? Is there even any appetite for it?? I just feel like we're passively allowing our kids to be so harmed, and assume we're powerless when we're not...

Schools need to recognise ASD/ADHD more than ever because (IMO) the pressure from schools and the informal cluttered environment (far more so than when I was at secondary school 30 years ago) means that children will struggle because of sensory issues. OFSTED likes classrooms covered in information, every corner and wall has a purpose. IME this leads to exhaustion and burnout. This bombardment of information is useful to very few pupils, and detrimental to many.

I'd agree with this - and general noise/disruption levels - at least in DC school and amount of group work.

My kids tend to hate group work - and TBH when you have a workplace group where rest of group isn't pulling their weight there are options - management or leave - it's not the same as being 13 and told by the teacher it's your job to get rest of group to do something - with no backup at all. It actively hurt DS in primary in maths it was all explain concept then do fun group work to embedded by which time he'd forgotten everything due to working memory issues. In end we found website that did maths like we'd been taught - explanation worked example 20 questions to check - and he caught right up and is now considered very good at maths.

Lead by example.

Put your phone down, read news via an actual paper or radio 4, watch TV together, ask them what they are actually viewing online (some of it is quite good actually), don't be passive just "oh they won't have any friends", teach them good v bad media use but be prepared to not truly understand their needs.

They are entering a world where all have mobiles there is no turning back but you can guide.

Have you sat down with them with the articles that show how images are faked? Have you made them watch the documentaries about revenue porn, the cancer scam girl, have you drilled into them to not believe anything they see online unless there are certified sources.

Just talk to them ask them questions and listen to what they say, tell them you are worried about their influences and remind them they you are there for them.

It is a minefield yes, I agree, but it's not going anywhere so navigation is required no banning.

So many interesting and different points – I think it's all of these factors.

What to do? As a few have said, these genies won't go back in their bottles. I have a suspicion that there's going to be an enormous backlash re social media and identity obsession, because these great swings in culture are inevitable. It seems impossible right now, but I believe (and hope!) it's coming.

For now, maybe parents must find small ways to limit the damage. Sport helps hugely, and girls need active options that don't involve freezing playing fields and awful uniforms. And any focus on practical, hands-on, tangible, real-life things – cooking together, encouraging non-digital artistic expression, hiking groups for women and girls, whatever. Anything that involves deep focus, true novelty and the satisfaction of doing. No magical fixes, sure, but small ways to help chip away at this.

Oh, and remembering that it's always tough to be young. I do believe it's much tougher now that it ever was, but time and experience tend to help us through to the other side. Have perspective, and be wary of interventions that could make things worse.

I agree it's the smartphones! Not so much social media putting pressure on teens to be/do/act a certain way, but the instantly accessible entertainment - I witness my (18-year old) child scroll endlessly through ticktock, trying for that hit of dopamine.
They need more face to face time with other people of varying generations, too.

I think it has to be an accumulation of things. But one thing I do wonder is if too much emphasis is put on mental health and not enough on resilience.

I have several friends who go straight into school (primary school) the moment their child as the slightest issue. I'm not saying that's wrong but I'm not sure it prepares them for adulthood and to be able to manage difficult situation themselves.

@AngelicaElizaAndPeggy I’m surprised to hear that!
My youngest’s primary school (he’s now at secondary), the informality, noise, clutter everywhere made things very difficult for him and other autistic pupils - I’m also autistic, and kindly (😏) pointed out to the school that I couldn’t cope in that environment, pointing out several areas that could be improved, and they were very clear that OFSTED preferred the classroom like that rather than a more peaceful and calm setting - of course they could well have lied about OFSTED’s input!

Literally any spare inch on the wall was covered, learning stations were cluttered around the walls, information dangled from the ceiling, I had to request meetings in a staff office father than the classroom, as I had to cover my eyes in order to be in the room at all!

My friend works in marketing at a massive tech firm beginning with M.

She doesn’t let any of her kids/teens have social media.

@ZeroFuchsGiven 👍 I agree.
I'm divorced, have DS and DD one in secondary and one in primary. One is a drama lama and I will be keeping them away from social media for as long as I can as I could see them getting sucked down the rabbit hole. The other needs confidence and can back out of things that I know they would enjoy if they gave it a go. I'm sure I will get flamed as a manipulative parent or some such, but I gently encourage them to do stuff that place themselves outside their comfort zone so that they can get comfortable with being uncomfortable, we do challenges as a family (I'm not talking Himalayan trekking or anything) but stuff that I know that they can do but may feel uneasy about doing, so that they can feel the emotions of anxiety, excitement, fear, elation and pride in a safe way that has no risk in front of school friends or failure of tests/exams, just us as a family supporting each other and I am hoping that this will be enough for them to recognise and be able to deal with these feelings when they come across them again.

I read a few weeks ago that China invest heavily in western social media, whilst banning their youngsters from using it at all.
I’m sure I’ve seen that there’s an ongoing destabilisation effect, like Russia’s input in Brexit, wonder if this is a deliberate part of it?

Open plan is as intimidating as a blank piece of paper. It makes me freeze to the spot, get overwhelmed and not engage

China is after colonising the globe through the back door. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but very much worry about how much we let china invest in our tech, local authorities, trade and policies. They are so ingrained if every aspect of our lives if we went to war with them we wouldn't stand a chance

@Buckland123 completely agree with everything you have said.

This is true. When I was at school ( many years ago) the walls were bare except for a few reproductions of famous artists. This was at secondary. Juniors, as far as I remember, had plain walls too.
All the information and colour is just overwhelming. We don't decorate our houses like this, so why do it at school?

@ frozendaisy - I think we have taken that approach and I agree it tech that's here and it's trying to give the kids the tools to manage it.

We were later than many parents around us though - some seemed to give phones and access at very young ages - and did have some comments about us being luddites at which point pointed out pre kids tech industry was where I worked and still was for DH.

I agree OP but I think it is parents that often need to take a greater role in setting boundaries and promoting a good healthy balance in life between online activities and offline activities. So many kids can barely function in school because they don't get enough sleep with phones beside them all night and/ or gaming into the early hours. I was the worst mum in the world for having phone curfew and for insisting that phones were off and left downstairs on charge overnight. DCs were in the minority with this even though some of their friends were suffering from relentless dramas late into the night their parents still did not step even when it was clear their MH was suffering. If I was dealing with stressful work emails all day, late into the night every night and all weekend I think my MH would suffer so it is no different for DCs. They need boundaries, they need parents to step up and step in and switch it off for them even when they are kicking off and say their world will end if they do not Snapchat someone back every time. And no they don't need a phone as an alarm just get an actual alarm clock instead

And what about the schools who were praised for giving out 1:1 devices and switching all learning to apps and online platforms and providing full days of tech based learning every day in the lockdowns? They were held up as the best response to the challenges posed by isolation, even for primary age children Some of these schools have never really gone back and it horrifies me to see them advertising their Reception intake open evenings with pictures of 4 year olds in a classroom with headphones and a tablet.

As a teen I grew up with snapchat, facebook, youtube and tumblr. It was our escape. From what I've heard the school system is even more constrictive now than it was then. I had multiple friends with eating disorders, depression, anxiety or self harm issues. It was almost normal life for me, but I very rarely told my parents so that they didn't panic.

I'm willing to bet far more parents are aware they need to monitor teens social medias than when I was younger, which is definitley a good thing. I think kids were actually far more worried about school, careers and exams. We had weekly assemblies where they would talk about exams results and how we have to go to uni from the time I was 11. Every single teacher looked run absolutely ragged while I was there. The curriculum changed every year and they just looked so worn out. We started at 8:20 (had to be in by 8 though) and finished at 3:20 ready for one to two hours of homework, then by the time we had to revise at GCSE it was just all too much.

We need to ease off our kids, pay our teachers, provide schools with resources and allow everyone to calm the fuck down. It's not the end of the world. Kids are supposed to be learning, not regurgitating.

A huge number of parents would go absolutely ballistic if they weren't able to track their children at all times. And, in many cases, message them during the day.

We used to have that rule and there would be constant calls to pass on messages 'can you tell Sarah to meet me in Bridge Place after school?' 'Can you let James know that he's to go straight home?' 'Has Elizabeth arrived at school? What do you mean you don't know because school doesn't start for another half hour? Go out and look for her!' 'My daughter was supposed to be home at 3.35pm, it's now 3.40. Where is she? Go and check the five clubs running, go to the bus stop, it's only ten minutes round the corner and find out why she isn't here!'.

It feels unfair to punish a kid for using their phone when it's their parent who is more dependent upon the things than they are, especially when it's in their bag and their Mum has decided to phone them ten minutes after formtime started.

This is completely true

these types make up my social circle and DH works in same industry. Our friends kids are not allowed screens minus some planned tv time or time at a desktop/laptop to learn practical skills. No YouTube, no social media, no pointless scrolling. They have even moved out incredibly rural areas to ensure their DC are outdoors more. They know how damaging it is.

our dd is too young for screens but we will do similar.

always makes me laugh when parents who are non techy types defend devices and social media usage for their kids because TECH IS THE FUTURE.

I think this is partly due to.social media AND due to.the fact most households need to.adults doing stupid hours to.get by these days.......there's no.anchor for so many during the teenage years when they need it. I mean how can we parent when we aren't physically there ??

I have zero patience for people who were all for covid lockdowns who are now lamenting the inevitable fallout of those lockdowns. There were people trying to warn that this would happen but no, everyone had to 'stay safe' and who cares about the consequences.

The long and the short of it is that if you take a person whose brain is still developing and take everything away from them - friends, socialising, school, hobbies, even the ability to a park and sit on a bench or go and visit their grandmother - you cannot expect that person to come out the other side unscathed. Teens were taught that at any point for their own 'safety' their whole lives could be curtailed. It is psychological torture of the worst kind and this is the result, totally predictable.

The covid madness didn't happen in isolation of course - it was in a way the inevitable conclusion of a general 'stay safe' mentality that prioritises safety over living. Constantly protecting children gives them the message that 1) the world is a dangerous, scary place and 2) they don't have the capability to deal with it. Of course they're bloody anxious! Who wouldn't be??

People have always worked long hours. It's not a new phenomenon. The mid 20th century way of existing was not normal

I started a post on this the other day, more focused on primary aged kids and how to encourage low tech/low screen living. I’ll start a revolution with you, OP.

I'm adamant I won't allow either of my children unfettered, unsupervised access to the Internet for as long as I'm able to control it.

They're tiny at the minute but I won't be changing my stance, no matter how progressive society has become WRT kids having access to smartphones and social media.

When I was 12 my DM reluctantly had broadband installed as I badgered her for months and months about how "everybody" had bebo, MSN etc. She was a total technophobe, still is, and had no idea how to use a computer and navigate around the Internet. Completely naive as to what I was doing on the computer and ignorant to the fact she needed to be monitoring it.

Well that was it, I was off..

Chat rooms, adding any Tom Dick or Harry to my MSN messenger thinking I was making friends. Kids at school were sharing horrible videos depicting sex acts, violence and all sorts of disturbing crap. Girls in my year group being encouraged to flash on webcam, an older boy took a print out and distributed it around the school.

Somebody i didnt know invited me to watch him on webcam on MSN and it was a middle aged man sat on his bathroom floor shoving a Cucumber up his arse. I kid you not.

Glorification of self harm as mentioned by PP.

I can still remember, as clear as day, some of the horrible things I saw on the Internet that year. One that stands out the most is the image of a dog that had been hit by a train.

Like fuck any of that will be going on under my roof with mine.

DSC have always been allowed to spend hours on devices unmonitored at their DM's and their 4yo sister has been playing on roblox online since she was 3. 3 ffs. I don't have any jurisdiction as to what happens at her house, but it doesn't happen at mine.

I'd rather be the unpopular parent than have traumatised kids.

Some will say they'll just go online at their friends houses, and they probably will, but I won't accommodate it here.

Just did a quick snap poll of my teen DCs to ask what was the biggest negative influence in their peers lives and both said without hesitation that it was parents and family circumstances