Thread 1 - Lifeboat Muster Point for TalkExiles

[Kucinghitam]

Gather here all ye refugees from the foundering ship of JTT, if ye be in need of "How the heck do I format my post?" "Why can't I edit my typos?" "What do those acronyms mean?" and most importantly, "Where is everybody that I used to know?"

Or just to chat randomly.

otray, Finlay and Misha look almost regal, what a lovely pair.

I really should stop reading the JtT lifeboat thread.

Part of me thinks that, but then you get a golden exchange that is something along these lines:

Pstr1: Women should be able to say what they think.

Rspn1: But what if it's transphobic?

Which is basically the whole issue in a nutshell for The Lads. I would hope it was tongue in cheek, but who really knows?

[chicken wing]

It seems not...😅

Hey, I like it.

"I suspect he knows his schtick wouldn’t work here but you could be right, maybe he will trot up one fine day."

His schtick stopped working a long time ago. The problem with the Other Place was that because there were no reactions or 'likes' etc that a lot of people thought he just wound them up but it turned out he did the same for many people. I'm obv not saying there should have been likes.

Pstr1: Women should be able to say what they think.

Rspn1: But what if we lose our talkboard because our dear leader has laid down conditions (that we don't care about)?

Seems more common.

you get a golden exchange that is something along these lines

Pstr1: Women should be able to say what they think

Rspn1: But what if it's transphobic?

Which is basically the whole issue in a nutshell for The Lads.

That would almost sort of be okay but what one particular poster said was that if some of the women were allowed back it would make others feel uncomfortable or unsafe. Maybe he wants to make, you know, a little list... or perhaps they could have a little purity questionnaire before you're allowed on: are you now or did you ever post on the THREAD OF HATE!!!???

I would hope it was tongue in cheek

No. Completely serious - as was the comment "without regard to the feelings and rights of other groups? I don't think so." No matter that much gender ideology and activism is deeply offensive to many women.

We developed principles of toleration precisely to manage situations like this - or interreligious conflicts - where we don't have to like what others think, but we have to live together. This group response feels positively 17th century. Someone thinks things that upset you - therefore you demonise them and go to war. It's barbaric.

That would almost sort of be okay but what one particular poster said was that if some of the women were allowed back it would make others feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

I think the one I saw was a slightly later exchange this afternoon (I know, I know). But the idea that if you allow women unmonitored speaking rights they might not say the correct things is an astonishing statement in 2022. Well, should be anyway.

Rspn1: But what if we lose our talkboard because our dear leader has laid down conditions (that we don't care about)?

Wouldn't it be much easier if they want to save their little community by having a list of pre-banned posters!? Then they'd know they'd be fine? Can't be more than, what, 20 of us? Maybe 30? 50 tops. Draw up a list, block us from joining and they can stop mithering about it. Sorted!

And further, I don't see any posts saying, did you actually read that back and see what you're saying? So one must assume that none of the other posters find it an especially notable thought.

This group response feels positively 17th century.

My historical knowledge isn't brilliant on this but I think we're talking pre-Enlightenment here? @Winterborne74 As someone said to Billy Bragg on Twitter: would you have been on the side of the Inquisition against Galileo!? Needless to say, he didn't answer.

the idea that if you allow women unmonitored speaking rights they might not say the correct things is an astonishing statement in 2022.

I'm finding it rather amusing to see all the misoygnists and sexists reveal themselves @StephanieSuperpowers I was angry and upset over the weekend and, I'll confess, had a bit of a broken night's sleep last night. I hate being thought bigoted and hateful when I know for a fact I am neither of those things. It hurts. It's upsetting but... I'm fine today. I can laugh now because it's not me it's them. I mean it really is isn't it!?

I mean it really is isn't it!?

I don't think so. I've often asked myself the same question because I used to be on the side of Good and being Right but now I find I'm not there anymore, solely due to this issue. But every time I look at why I am on the side that I'm on, it fundamentally comes down to a couple of key beliefs:

1. you can't change sex, even if you want to;
2. sex matters to women's ability to live as fully realised humans;
3. pretending otherwise harms women;
4. women are just as important as any other group.

And I just can't see why that's bigotry.

This.

That's because it's not bigotry, Stephanie.

And I just wish that those men who fret about women saying or thinking the wrong thing were as invested in getting men who are actually doing any harm to stop. That would be a far more constructive use of their time and energy.

And I just can't see why that's bigotry.

It isn't. And the way you know it is isn't is to reverse it. So, you're not a bigot if you think boys playing with girls toys ought to be put on drugs for the rest of their lives and have surgery. You're not a bigot if you think biology is irrelevant and there is no such thing as sex. You're not a bigot if you believe in sterilising children. You're not a bigot if you think there's no such thing as homosexual or same-sex attraction - it's gender attraction etc etc.

It's the old Simon Hoggart test. When a politician says something meaningless such as, "I believe in opportunities for all!" Reverse it: "I don't believe in opportunities for all." No one would say the opposite therefore it's nonsense.

I find this helps!

And I just wish that those men who fret about women saying or thinking the wrong thing were as invested in getting men who are actually doing any harm to stop. That would be a far more constructive use of their time and energy.

Never ever underestimate how much many men want to control women. That goes as much for some left-wing men as it does right-wing and no wing. Gay, bi, trans or straight if they are men they are men first and either it's conditioning or innate or bit of both but men tend to feel superior to women, can't stand being challenged by them, are threatened by intelligent women of independent thought and often simply don't see us as fully-functioning human beings with minds and bodies of our own.

Randomly, @Ginmonkeyagain and @Patrooshka1 I just spotted this in Active. I haven't contributed, as it was umpty decades ago that I was there... although the responses suggest that it is pretty much as it was.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4680495-royal-holloway-whats-it-like-being-in-egham

Blimey, Egham, that's a blast from the past. My brother lived there when he was a student in the early 80s and seemed to like it very much.

Name changed to say hello. Been here for years mostly lurking and learning.

I am really upset by what has happened on JTT. I am not sure my first reaction was right - I just wanted all the fighting there to stop. It hasn't though.

I did think it was a good thing you came to Mumsnet though. It's like you've gone from a leaky tug boat to an ocean liner. Lots of passionate, no nonsense, witty people here.

There are still some threads on the old place I cannot abandon because they are a lifeline to me but it's not the same any more.

I may lurk less here.

Ha ha. I might take a look. To this day I have never met so many rich people in one place. I imagine it is worse now.

@Staticgirl hello! Good to see you.

lawls, there are men who buck that trend. Some of the best of them recognise the tendency and actively try to work against doing that - including a few who spoke up and who came here with us. I respect them so much for that, particularly since they're going against their own cultural conditioning.

Well, this is interesting! Am I allowed to join in if I lost my JTT password years ago and never got around to getting it reset?