An alternative upbringing, low screen/tech, outdoors, is it possible anymore?

[MamaDuckling]

DH and I starting to feel increasingly uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the way life is panning out… I’m wondering if there are any groups (forums) for alternative/low tech parenting that anyone knows of and can recommend?

For example: Kids just want to sit and watch tv/screens. We take them out, we are active, museums, activities etc etc. But they say everything is ‘boring’. DD for example can’t even seem to sit in the car or on a bus now without saying how boring it is - it’s like they need constant stimulation.

These aren’t kids that were raised on screens - they have had access to screens in moderation, but the amount of choice, instant gratification/flick flick flick nature of kids tv hasn’t helped I don’t think.

DH and I want to raise kids who enjoy the outdoors, who enjoy creating, have hobbies. Where we live all I see is kids who are glued to their tech (both parents busy working and seem to rely on iPads/YouTube etc to babysit kids).

I do worry that this is a symptom of where we live. Busy busy lives, people always on the go, always working (and wfh, always plugged in). Short of upping sticks for the middle of nowhere, which we don’t want to do either, how can we change our lifestyle to drastically cut out this reliance on tech/digital entertainment? Do we need to go TV free? We have so far banned YouTube and any gaming is for a limited period at weekends. But I still feel it’s all the kids want to ever do.

Maybe it’s obvious and we just need to take the things away? But does that make things worse, create resentment for forcing an alternative lifestyle on them? We can’t be alone in not wanting to raise kids glued to devices?

Sorry for the rambling post, not really sure what I’m asking - has anyone got what they think is a good balance?

We allow unlimited quality screen time, ours have learned to self moderate, probably 2-4 hours of screen time a day alongside excellent school results, 4 hobbies each and no tantrums over being asked to turn screens off. The only screen rule we’ve had is no screens for journeys shorter than 2.5 hours as it’s a good opportunity to sit quietly and think or talk or listen to a book.

How old are they?

It's much harder to take screens away once they've been introduced. The older they are, the harder it will be.

The 'i'm bored' thing is a fairly common stage though and they will grow out of that so I wouldn't go off grid just because one of you're kids is in that stage. Just respond 'good, it's good to be be bored' and ignore.

Thanks, I had considered the unlimited option to help them learn self regulation, DS used to be quite good (eg he’d get bored of YouTube), but DD less so. And now that DS has a console (for one niche simulation game only), he’s less good at it too. I feel like we are on the precipice now, having just got him a console so that he wasn’t the weirdo without one. Wondering what I can put into place to prevent a slippery slope downwards? Or whether we need to change our lifestyle completely?

We properly hate everything that devices seem to bring as far as kids/tweens are concerned.

DH and I want to raise kids who enjoy the outdoors, who enjoy creating, have hobbies. what do you and dh do that is outdoors, creative, or hobbies?

DS is 9 and DD 7.

DS plays one game on his console and enjoys some tv. Had been watching quite a bit of niche YouTube (I say niche but it’s basically his passion - aviation), but his friends had started watching rubbish like unspeakable that just seems awful. I hate the whole format of YouTube, it cannot be good for focus/attention span. So YouTube is gone.

DD could watch hours of mindless Netflix shows but does enjoy simple games.

To be clear, I’m not anti gaming, I think some are fine and can be great fun, it’s the other stuff and general over reliance on devices that scares me. I’m wondering whether we need to nip it in the bud now, for example, by ditching our own smartphones in favour of a Nokia so that the kids do t expect their own iPhone come 11, like all the other kids round here.

My son went to Cubs/Scouts and also Woodcraft Folk so he did a lot of different activities, outdoor stuff and camps. He also played basketball, went swimming, played tennis, did athletics for a year or so and enjoyed cycling (scootering when younger)
As he was out two evenings a week with Scouts/Woodcraft folk and did at least one sport on both Saturday and Sunday, as long as his homework was done, I didnt mind if he spent the rest of his time on his playstation. I think we had a good balance - and he would never turn down scout camp to play on his PS4

We have limited screens, guessing it adds up to 7-8 hours over a week with a film too at the weekend. Some of that time is spent coding though rather than gaming or watching videos and we don't have a TV. We are pretty strict at not allowing more though so when it is off, it is off and our DC have lots of hobbies, do lots of sport, music, read a huge amount too etc. They beg for more sometimes but it isn't something I will negotiate on. I think you just have to set your boundaries and deal with the moaning rather than plan on changing your life.

@Itisbetter
DH and I are both quite sporty/adventurous but it doesn’t seem to excite the kids. We go kayaking/running, cycling, walking. Hobbies admittedly are less as we generally don’t have much spare time. But DH is very practical and often building/DIYing, as am I.

Mine very occasionally game. They are far less addicted to their phones than me. But they've had ponies growing up, kept at home so they had to go out side in all weathers to look after them. Bit of a drastic and expensive hobby but it works!

YouTube isn’t allowed in our house in the unlimited screen time rules as the things they choose are trash. The unlimited activities are - feature films, some tv series, a couple of you tube channels which are genuinely educational, coding tutorials and a selection of games minecraft, any sim game, age of empires/turn based strategy, chess etc.

The more fun stuff that’s more addictive - Fortnite/fun YouTubers/fifa etc is subject to more supervision and control on time, but we’ve had the rule from day one that any reluctance to stop at the end of an activity = longer break before you can play again. They’re pretty good to be honest.

I think there is a temptation to think no screens = kids who never report being bored, and that kids who complain of being bored are 'spoilt' by screens. I think being bored is a fundamental and necessary part of childhood and something kids will moan about regardless of whether they have screens or not.

Most effective thing I've found is to find things to do together - that they actively want to do, when it's their time to choose - and just avoid screens that way. I don't think bans or limits are the way to go personally.

Groups focused around unschooling/ no screens / free range childhood tend to attract people with strong, uncompromising views in my experience, and that doesn't suit me. But they might be your thing, why not give them a try?

Mine are similar ages, they have up to an hour’s screen time before school (only once they’re ready and all chores done) and an hour after school. This can be gaming / you tube / tv. Then another half an hour for homework - purplemash etc - at the end of the day. This gets increased a bit at the weekend and they can watch more tv or a film. It’s hard to be strict but worth it in terms of their behaviour. And it’s perfectly okay to be bored!!

I let my DC have unlimited screens and supported them to learn self-regulation which they're fairly good at. I don't pass value judgements on the content they access, I wouldn't dream of referring to something they enjoy as "trash" because I consider that to be harmful to their self-esteem, the things they enjoy might not be my cup of tea but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value to them so each to their own.

My only rules around screens and gaming relate to safety and conduct. When playing online games we don't add anyone as a friend unless we also know them in real life, we always speak to a grown up if we see something online that upsets/confuses/scares us, phones and laptops don't go in bedrooms, when gaming if you rage then it goes off, and if I give a ten minute warning that the screens need to go off (e.g., we're eating soon) then they go off after that time.

You’re saying everything I’ve been saying for years! I’m a teacher and this is a real problem, it’s becoming worse and worse over the years. I now have a toddler and I have the tv off a lot of the time but if it’s on its only on my programmes. I don’t ever show him any baby/toddler tv. I think the main thing that’s the issue is kids watching things like YouTube and just losing interest and changing it rather than watching anything to the end. Actual tv programmes don’t have that option so surely aren’t so bad. I still just don’t want to encourage it but my little boy entertains himself all the time if I’m not playing with him. We can go out for dinner and he’ll sit quite happily just watching what’s going on. We’ve been in restaurants where other kids his age have had a phone watching videos the whole time and been squaking and shrieking if it went off.

It’s become so normalised. My friend’s will say about how they’ve had baby tv on for their newborn ‘just to get 5 minutes peace’ etc. My little boy has never needed tv on for 5 minutes peace, if he’s bored he’ll go and find something to do. I don’t say anything to friends about it but it gets awkward when they start asking what he watches.. eh nothing 😂

DC are very outdoorsy, some days they'll play on their screens for ages (e.g., today when they've been stuck at home because I wasn't feeling well) and other days they'll barely even touch them. Even on days where they spend a lot of time on them they'll still flit in and out of the garden or will scooter around the corner to the park for a bit or go call for a friend. They do clubs and activities, all doing well in school, none have developed square eyes.

Definitely don’t want to go down the unschool route and agree that some of the views on those sorts of groups could be too strong. Kids love us all going swimming, maybe need to structure weekends around some of the things they want to do together like that, and do it much more often (we are guilty of doing too much national trust).

I completely agree that kids (and adults) need to be able to be bored. I just feel like it’s ten-fold for todays kids who are just not used to being bored and having to make their own amusement.

I do agree, @goldpendant . It's too easy for kids to deal with boredom now by watching shit.. hell, I do it myself with Facebook reels about dogs and babies and holidays and ... Oh god, it's just so sad!

I don't think screens are evil but it does vex me that kids can't deal with delayed gratification. They aren't really learning about this because of Amazon prime, other online shopping, streaming telly, deliveroo, TikTok, movies on demand, etc etc. Dunno what the answer is apart from setting up a quasi Amish community, though....

@Endwalker Interesting points re what I consider to be rubbish vs their self esteem - I kind of get that, but I just don’t want my kids growing up thinking that Preston/Unspeakable (of huge wealth but seemingly great stupidity), are people to aspire to. It’s all inane, loud, shouty drivel. I won’t be moved on that!

@Goawayangryman oh me too. I recently discovered instagram reels and it is fabulous, actually makes me smile after a shit day. But I can regulate. I can waste an hour of my life watching dog videos, but I can regulate. I honestly just wish our kids weren’t growing up in a world with this.

God I think 2-4 hours of screen time a day Is an awful lot..

But anyway OP I think you are on a hiding to nothing trying to ban it, I just think it’s about limiting time. I also think expecting kids to self regulate is mostly impossible - tech is designed to be addictive, even to adults.

But if they really don’t want to do anything that you are offering, I would talk to them about what else they’d like to do. They might not know - so it might be about experimenting with doing different stuff - give them a bit of autonomy on that.

I fucking HATE Preston and Brianna and all their friends. I dunno though, I just don't see it any worse than 8yr old me aspiring to be either the next Kylie Minogue or Mrs Donnie Wahlberg (I hadn't decided which yet).

My friend does it, her kids are always outside, rarely on screens. She home educates though and is totally focussed on them. Not sure how feasible it is for the average school attending child though.

@Endwalker but Kylie wasn’t screaming down the tv screen or playing ridiculous pranks or setting completely unrealistic expectations of what life is like (private jetting around the world doing challenges etc).

So DH and I work ft and I suppose I am wondering if there’s any merit in a simpler life. Sell up, downsize, move more rurally, and yes, focus more on the kids and on fondly their passions (eg actually helping DS learn to glide which we’ll never be able to do here), rather than playing at it behind a screen all weekend.

Im treating my hair out over all this and Lord knows what I’ll be like when they actually ask for a phone, or social media. I just don’t want them to want it.

I have an 8 year old and a 4 year old. We have zero handheld tech. Tv with cartoons only. No YouTube at all.

Content on YouTube is not vetted by anyone. All tv cartoons (BBC/Nickelodeon/Disney etc) are cleared by an educational psychologist and are therefore appropriate for kids.

The key is balance. Focusing as much as possible on old-school activities reading, crafts, being outdoors, being active, imaginative play)
These give our children incredibly important skills, that cannot be learned from a screen. Empathy, creativity, focus, imagination. Ability to be bored.

Your gut instinct is right. Early access to a constant stream of entertainment that they don't have to work for at all, is incredibly damaging to a child. I honestly believe that there will be a huge divide in the future, as children who have been protected from junk-tech (YouTube/TIkTok/Snapchat/Instagram etc.) will be way ahead of the other kids, on so many levels.

@Luredbyapomegranate it sounds like a lot but it’s easily done and it depends on what you count. So would the 30 mins of guitar tutorials my 11 year old watched yesterday(that then led to an HoD of playing) count as screen time? I add it all in to the approximate amount. And 2 hours is easily done - mine are allowed tv once ready for school if totally ready and homework done, they get up quite early so that can easily be 30-45 mins. Then an hours downtime after school before hobbies which I think is totally normal and what most people used to do and you’re already at 2 hours.