An alternative upbringing, low screen/tech, outdoors, is it possible anymore?

[MamaDuckling]

DH and I starting to feel increasingly uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the way life is panning out… I’m wondering if there are any groups (forums) for alternative/low tech parenting that anyone knows of and can recommend?

For example: Kids just want to sit and watch tv/screens. We take them out, we are active, museums, activities etc etc. But they say everything is ‘boring’. DD for example can’t even seem to sit in the car or on a bus now without saying how boring it is - it’s like they need constant stimulation.

These aren’t kids that were raised on screens - they have had access to screens in moderation, but the amount of choice, instant gratification/flick flick flick nature of kids tv hasn’t helped I don’t think.

DH and I want to raise kids who enjoy the outdoors, who enjoy creating, have hobbies. Where we live all I see is kids who are glued to their tech (both parents busy working and seem to rely on iPads/YouTube etc to babysit kids).

I do worry that this is a symptom of where we live. Busy busy lives, people always on the go, always working (and wfh, always plugged in). Short of upping sticks for the middle of nowhere, which we don’t want to do either, how can we change our lifestyle to drastically cut out this reliance on tech/digital entertainment? Do we need to go TV free? We have so far banned YouTube and any gaming is for a limited period at weekends. But I still feel it’s all the kids want to ever do.

Maybe it’s obvious and we just need to take the things away? But does that make things worse, create resentment for forcing an alternative lifestyle on them? We can’t be alone in not wanting to raise kids glued to devices?

Sorry for the rambling post, not really sure what I’m asking - has anyone got what they think is a good balance?

Similar to this tbh. We home educated for the first few years of their school lives and they spent most of that time outdoors.

We also try to recognise the fact that the seasons change our habits. In the summer/longer days we are on the beach or in the pool all day and their devices don't get much if a look in. In the winter, they are used more.

The two older ones do scouts/cubs plus a couple of sports each, the youngest isn't old enough for the former but has swimming club, gymnastics etc. Scouts or similar is great for wholesome activities.

We have screen time limits in that they automatically turn off at a set time at night and won't work until the morning, phones charge downstairs etc. Not allowed on car journeys unless long ones, but we do listen to audio books.

We are pretty strict about screen time with our DC and ourselves although we could do better.

No TV in the morning is our rule. School days they get an hour or so after school then a quick 20 mins after dinner while we clear up etc. My older ones know phones go off at 8pm ish and are kept downstairs overnight. Weekends are more relaxed and we always have Friday film night!

We are very outdoorsy and nature based so it balances out I hope! Our children also walk/bike to school if they are able to (one is disabled so can't obviously!)

My toddler and I go to forest school each week.

We also have a mud kitchen etc in the garden. My older ones like to sew and craft and read and will easily amuse themselves without screens.

Car journeys we have audiobooks and restaurants etc we take books or small toys

We have a no screen at the table rule at home unless it's relevant to the conversation.

We aren't perfect but do what we can!

I wouldn't worry too much about your children saying they are bored in the car. It's not necessarily a sign of anything- kids have been bored on car journeys since cars existed, and before that they were probably bored in carts and carriages.

I think the normal amount of access to things like phones and ipads for a 7yo is probably none or almost none. I don't think most children have these devices until senior school at the earliest. For TV, we always tried to make watching TV an active choice- decide you want to watch X, sit down and watch it, then turn the TV off. I think the problems start when having it on all the time becomes the norm.

At 7 and 9, limiting screen time is fairly easy as you arrange their activities and they don't have phones. It gets harder once they are teens, when they use phones to arrange their social lives and not to have one would be a genuine issue, plus homework is often set online. So I'm not sure that being genuinely low tech at that stage is possible unless you try to find a specialist school (I know low tech schools exist at primary, not sure about secondary as the tech is genuinely useful at that age and something they need to learn to use). I'd focus on establishing good habits now while you still have the chance- plenty of activities outside that don't rely on tech, tech-free hobbies, reading etc. Model how you want them to approach screens, so don't be constantly on your phone or allow phones at meal times. Don't have your phone in the bedroom etc etc. All the stuff we all know we should be doing anyway but struggle with.

Simplicity parenting (book) may appeal

It’s not easy. How old are the kids?

before high school I have done a good enough job here. I haven’t got them any screens - even “educational” ones.

had to get older DD a phone for school and it’s been harder. I just deleted TikTok. I’m v clear No screen use until everything else is done. We live quite rurally and drag them outdoors. Harder as they are older so I have to make it more “fun” eg scooters or beach combing or geo caches (using screens ironically!)

You sound like my DH lol

I do know this, but there has been a huge increase in cases which they are saying is linked to device usage. I’m not the expert, just repeating what a mental health expert talked about.

Really good post and accurately sums up my fears for as DC grow older and need to be immersed in tech for education. Currently taking it one step at a time but am very conscious I don’t want them to be left out.

My DC are (thankfully) too old for Cocomelon but I do wonder if Paw Patrol has similar effect as it moves far too quickly and is so stimulating.

I think you have to push and keep on doing the things you’re doing, even if they do moan about it. The thing is, I think the kids you see that take to all the things you’ve described are in the minority, and am not sure they can be created for want of a better word, but you’re doing a great job. Our kids are ADDICTED to screens and so we have to fight all the way while (when we can) giving the impression we’re not, so calling board game evenings, making them read, playing chess, chatting, going out for walks, playing football and playing with the dog etc. the thing is it’s bloody hard, and the screens come out when we are wrecked and can’t force things but we do just keep in trying as much as possible. You’re doing great op, keep it up!!

Op I know what's you mean but I can't imagine any children ever throughout time being excited about looking through windows on a trip?

Why not make school and college a phone free space

Students are allowed phones all day at some schools and colleges? Which I find absurd. they do not need them

They're really not linked though because screens don't cause it, links have been investigated and no link has been found. Excessive screen time (and by 'excessive' they mean literally all day, every day) can cause some "ADHD like" behaviours when the screen is removed due to screen addiction but that is not ADHD and it resolves when the addiction issue is resolved. Excessive screen time might also make it more difficult for people with ADHD to emotionally or physically regulate but that depends on their particular profile and, again, resolves. ADHD itself cannot be prevented or resolved by taking away screens.

I don't think it's helpful, accurate, or even ethical for a so-called expert to claim that screens are behind a perceived rise in neurodivergent conditions (the rise is predominantly down to better recognition and earlier intervention, neurodivergent people being more likely to have children now and there being a genetic link, the rise in recognising neurodivergence in women/girls, and other related factors. It is not down to screens).

It’s doable when they are little but if they are average teens who want to fit in and are sociable they will hate you for banning tech. They will be isolated from their peers. Sad but true. We really tried but gave in like everyone else.

DS high school (age 13 to 18) they're allowed to keep their phones on them all day but they must be on silent in lessons and can only be used in designated areas during breaks, they get demerits if they don't follow these rules. Most of the children bus in, cycle, or walk, so lots of them have their phones for the journey (semi-rural area), plus teens social lives are on their phones because that's life nowadays. They all have access to the school app too which shows their timetable, dinner money balance, etc.

Its a great question OP, we tried as much as we could and although it's not the solution you asked for, we did have to move away to achieve this.

Our kids still love screens but they get so much outdoor time and more balanced time now, with more active interests as well as some screens - because we moved to the countryside (I know I know, you didn't want middle of nowhere!). But I think it's relevant to post this as we realised - as you've highlighted - everyone in our city had hurry sickness, always on the move, wanting stuff in seconds, and it just let to instant gratification screen action and the like - and way less outdoor opportunities, and no easy fresh air access. By that I mean we can leave our door unlocked anytime, we have a garden, there's almost no traffic, the air is fresh, it just means kids can be kids and be safe and explore (sorry that's a cliche but it's true). We did all the museum, after school club, etc stuff as much as we could before leaving and it's an uphill battle. It's just easy here, for want of a better word, to be balanced as a mindset, if that makes sense.

If you live in a city don't put massive pressure on yourself to achieve this day to day, cities are only enjoyable with a big immediate gratification way of living (e.g., coffees out, screen to relax, quick browse of a shop, grab a snack, etc). I say this as someone that LOVES cities.

The middle school (age 9 to 13) allow then to bring phones into school as lots of them have them for travelling to/from school, DC here tend to start taking themselves to school from year 4/age 8-9 and certainly by the start of middle school (year 5, age 9-10). They're not allowed then during the school day though so during registration they go into a lockbox which gets taken to the school office along with the completed register.

End ,in a class there is no need for ateen to Habe their phone.

In a class.

I think they should all hand them in at start or day and get them back at end.

They don't need to have on line sm social life going on on school. What the rule's say and what happens are two different things.

It would be far nicer to have space for them that's catagorically phone free.
I think phones allowed in class will be the new smoking inside in the future.people will think we are absolutely mad

I think it's true that kids in cities need tech more as well to fit in socially and also for safety, e.g., to stay safe and contactable on commutes to and from school etc if done independently.

They don't use them in class, they have to be away in a bag/pocket and on silent, but school don't take them away as a matter of routine. They're not small children, they're teens. They have phones and that's just a fact, they also have to learn how to use phones responsibly as part of preparing for adulthood therefore school operate an office-like policy of phones away and on silent in workareas, they can be used during breaks in designated areas (the designated areas are in the chillout areas of school grounds, inside school buildings are not a designated area).

As someone who lives in a semi-rural area (and probabky weighted more toward the rural than the semi), they need them out here. Mainly to keep in touch with friends who may not live in the immediate vicinity and for travelling around which can involve lengthy bus rides or walks down country lanes.

That's what I was meaning - a few months ago I would have thought there was no place for them in a class, and also that in year 7 there would probably be a few children who did not automatically have a phone...but the teachers themselves make use of the school apps both in lessons and for homework. To get to know anything (has your kid been praised, or got detention, borrowed a library book, changed set, or ticked off their homework?) both you AND they need to interact with the bloody apps. It's half the problem, not social media or mindless scrolling.

We have tried to raise our daughter in this vain too.

She didn't watch any tv until 3 & then it was only occasional Cbeebies as I liked that BBC had no ads & some of the programming was also educational.

She then progressed to CBBC in Year 5/6 for around an hour after school each day.

I managed to staved off gaming until she reached 11/12.When we got her a Wii & she did things like Minecraft.

All I can say is it definitely gets harder as it gets older, my daughter is nearly 14 and now it's very hard. She has a PS4 now & obviously a phone, but she still definitely has a lot less screen time than her peers, many of whom seem to be permanently plugged into their phones 🙄

I think definitely try & get them into a hobby, if you can. My daughter does gymnastics 3x a week & guides & tbh even though it means quite a bit of travelling, it's a life saver as it really helps keep her occupied & off a screen.

I think nowadays it's even harder, now there is Disney plus/Netflx/Kids youTube These weren't really around 10yrs ago when my daughter was small, but it does always makes me a bit sad when I see a toddler plugged into a Ipad in a pushchairs etc...

Sometimes you have to weigh it up though and take a balanced view. Once they get to secondary school it really is a different ballgame & you as the parent, loose a lot of control. Some of other girls my daughter knows from school, hang around parks in the evening & vape etc...

Obviously, your children are far too young to be doing anything like that, but for me personally I'd rather she was at home on her PS4 than doing this!

My daughter only 'games' downstairs' in the front room, so I can see the screen when I pop in & out, I know this isn't completely fool proof, but it does make a difference.

Good Luck & if anyone has any tips for keeping teens off screens please let me know!! 😀

Whether we like it or not, technology is part of our lives now. A lot of day to day stuff needs a device - shopping, medical apps, tickets, booking holidays.
So for me the issue is not really about how much screen time but what are they doing.
My son didn't get a smart phone until year 8 when he had proved to me he would look after a phone. I resisted for years allowing him to have Grand Theft Auto and other 18 rated games, now he is 18 he's lost interest in them. No devices in bedroom until he was 16, the PS5 is still in the living room. Checks on his phone until he proved to me he could use it safely and responsibly. He learnt a couple of hard lessons but understands internet safety.
My biggest gripe now is the enormous headphones permanently clamped to his head so he can listen to music.
But he isn't hanging out on street corners.

True @Endwalker ... We don't need them where we live but I could imagine many rural areas really do.