An alternative upbringing, low screen/tech, outdoors, is it possible anymore?

[MamaDuckling]

DH and I starting to feel increasingly uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the way life is panning out… I’m wondering if there are any groups (forums) for alternative/low tech parenting that anyone knows of and can recommend?

For example: Kids just want to sit and watch tv/screens. We take them out, we are active, museums, activities etc etc. But they say everything is ‘boring’. DD for example can’t even seem to sit in the car or on a bus now without saying how boring it is - it’s like they need constant stimulation.

These aren’t kids that were raised on screens - they have had access to screens in moderation, but the amount of choice, instant gratification/flick flick flick nature of kids tv hasn’t helped I don’t think.

DH and I want to raise kids who enjoy the outdoors, who enjoy creating, have hobbies. Where we live all I see is kids who are glued to their tech (both parents busy working and seem to rely on iPads/YouTube etc to babysit kids).

I do worry that this is a symptom of where we live. Busy busy lives, people always on the go, always working (and wfh, always plugged in). Short of upping sticks for the middle of nowhere, which we don’t want to do either, how can we change our lifestyle to drastically cut out this reliance on tech/digital entertainment? Do we need to go TV free? We have so far banned YouTube and any gaming is for a limited period at weekends. But I still feel it’s all the kids want to ever do.

Maybe it’s obvious and we just need to take the things away? But does that make things worse, create resentment for forcing an alternative lifestyle on them? We can’t be alone in not wanting to raise kids glued to devices?

Sorry for the rambling post, not really sure what I’m asking - has anyone got what they think is a good balance?

I agree with you about being in restaurants. I’m amazed at the number of children who have a screen when out. Mine coloured or we played I Spy. Now they’re 8 and 6 we take puzzles or play memory games.

Be careful though being too relieved your toddler doesn’t want TV! I read loads to my children, I mean book after book but my now 8 year old is a reluctant reader 🤔
They never used to demand screens but the influence of what friends tell them they do is massive!

I also agree re restaurants. I make a conscious effort to pack our own colouring/plain paper and loads of pens, and we chat too.

also agree re short journeys, we don’t do tech if it’s a short car burnet or flight etc, only allowed on longer journeys.

agree with a PP, 2 hours a day is easily done and probably doesn’t differ to how much we Al had growing up. Difference is, we waited a week for the Demon headmaster to come on and then watched it until the end! Ours are early risers too so they have a bit of first thing.

So far no one has suggested a commune or a complete removal of screens… which I suppose is a relief! Definitely need to keep a very close eye on it all though, and pleased to have banned YouTube which so far they don’t seem to even be missing.

In fairness if you look around my commuter train then most adults are on screens, reading books, listening to music or podcasts. You aren't expected to just sit and stare.

Ours don’t have internet access (5 and 8) and limited amounts of TV/switch time. No tablet at all except a kindle somewhere uncharged. when we eat out we take colouring or they talk to us, only time they watch TV is after school until tea time, if they have done their homework/times tables sheets/music practise/tidied bags.

Never though I was that unusual, but compared to most of their friends who have their own tablets and unlimited screen time when they are at home maybe I am.

I worry they are not picking up tech knowledge need, and they don’t get to use any of the apps the teachers send home.

I think you have to find a balance in your lives. I’m not saying we’re perfect at all but this is what we do - no screen time before school. No tablets during the week at all. After school they have about an hour or so of TV and has to be a programme both the 8 and 5 yr old agree on. They do Afterschool club so wouldn’t have time for much more.

On the weekends my son is an early riser so has his tablet for about 1.5hrs once he is awake. Off by 8am generally. Then after lunch on the weekends they can have more time on tablets or what they want. It prob sounds a bit restrictive but it works for us and feels natural. However we’re about to introduce a games console (switch) into the mix for my eldest who is eight, it’s his Christmas present. So not sure how we’ll deal with access to that.

I deleted YouTube and kids tube off my elder ones tablet as he wasn’t going for the educational stuff but these awful American family videos about people who seemed to have huge amounts of stuff and toys and the latest gadget and always having fun. My son had a big screaming fit one day about why we didn’t live like that and all ‘no fair’ etc. So it went.

one thing I find especially with my eldest who has never been into playing much is I have to make suggestions of stuff to do eg after tablet time on a weekend afternoon - let’s go and play a game or do some baking together etc.

so it’s a balance of screens, reading, friends over, games or arts/crafts and going out to do active stuff I guess.

I wouldn't call 4 hours a day "self-moderation".

Yes it is entirely possible. You lead by example, get rid of what you don't want in your home and get on with it. We raised our kids in the way we wanted to, you can too. It is really very simple, it just requires positive choices.

Is none of their homework online? All our maths homework is online.

I think about the content of what DS watches/plays but I'd feel odd not letting him use screens at all...half his male relatives have some kind of computer science degree and most of my job is "researching things in google". I like to think I'm teaching him about if things are reliable sources of information or not.

(He does plenty of other stuff too like swimming and choir and the park and museum trips)

My rule is that the laptop stays in the living room and if you start shouting at a game you get one warning and then it goes away.

We are weaning ours off the tablets, which they got into over lockdown.

We prefer if they watch TV for many reasons, it's more social, it's less damaging for their eyes and you know what they are watching. Handhelds are horrendous for little one's eyes. Youtube is shite, our watched one particular lego YouTuber for a while but we are discouraging this.

We don't own any gaming devices but youngest will oqccaiosnally play one of 4-5 simple games on their tablet.

The most damaging things about constant tablet screen time is that it damages there eye sight and shoots their attention span to pieces. Game consoles are provide instant gratification on tab and it's easy to get addicted to them.

I see mothers out with young babies in prams where the babies are watching programmes on a their mum's phone rather than looking around or interacting with their mum / surroundings. I think that's really detrimental to their development.

Atrocious spelling

i live very rurally so there’s a different attitude towards freedom for children. Yesterday mine were out with friends on bicycles and carrying fishing rods for 3/4 hours with no parental input and no devices.

I’ve removed nintendos as I couldn’t see they brought anything to the table.

i think YT is utter brain-rot and PP nailed it when she said this chopping and changing of channels encourages high-stim/high-reward but is ultimately damaging.

I'm a software engineer by trade so so spend a lot of time with screens - but, like so many of us - as a child my face was buried in a pony’s neck or a book which imo is far healthier.

I also believe 4hrs/day is way too much unless that’s “start to finish” - 4 hrs of channel-hopping is not good and would make me myself feel discombobulated, never mind a young person’s brain!

I just want to drop in to say, don't be so quick to judge parents using a screen in public you don't always know the situation.

My non verbal autistic four year old finds the world completely overwhelming, we very very rarely eat out but if we do, he needs to have headphones and a screen so he can block out all the other noises and stimulus. I would love him to colour but he absolutely couldn't comprehend that or in fact hold a pencil. When he has been at nursery for 2 hours which is the max he can handle, waiting at the bus stop we use his Spotify playlist to help him regulate.

Screens have enabled my son to make choices about what he watches and give him the continuity he needs, he will watch the same scene 20x per day.

I won't post again as don't want to derail but please don't be so quick to judge parents.

@ichundich I think for an 11 year old on a rainy boring Saturday 4 hours is incredibly well restrained. Like I said 2-4 - it’s a range, and in school days they would be at the 2 hour end. So this morning the 11 year old got up and did a 30 min python tutorial, is ready for school and is now reading for 20 mins and then will watching an episode of the Simpsons whilst waiting to leave at 8.35. So that’s an hour before school, but in my mind reasonably quality and not doom scrolling or clicking on addictive games/videos so it’s a completely benign hour in my view. He’ll do similar after school before going out to his sports group 5-7pm, then when we get back at 8 I’ll allow 45 mins of any choice game (like I said in my early posts, I do limit things I believe to be dubious quality). So that will be nearly 3 hours for an 11 year old in a day that will have included a day at school, coding, reading, guitar practice, and 1.5 hours of sport.

Could you have a day a week with no screens including you and DH?

My thoughts too. What do you enjoy? Do more of it and take/involve your kids (at whatever level you can). That starts the habit of doing things as a family and may spark some other interests from there for your children. You then take your cues from them and they can then build some interests of their own (which they’re more likely to want to develop and stick with).

If you lived in the middle of nowhere (unless you didn't have wifi and that's quite a hard way to live) then I think there's a risk your kids would spend more time on tech and screens as there would be less amenities on their doorstep and it would be harder for them to get around independently as they get older.

It's so hard, isn't it? It was only TV and PlayStation when mine were young and that was trying enough.
Modern technology is designed to be addictive and it's telling that the people who design it won't let their own children use it (social media)
We didn't allow TV or games before school, and that made a huge diffence to the start of the day.
Even now I'll get a message from a now adult that they've completed a project/walked the dog/ whatever wholesome thing and now they are going to chill with screens.
They are scattered around the country now but get together for online gaming once a week, so that's a positive. One is a professional webmaster/brand designer so the gaming as a child was useful.
Modern life, whether we like it or not, revolves around all this now, so it's a question of learning to use it in a healthy manner, rather than banning it I think.
Don't know what the answers are.
I do agree that being 'bored' is a good starting point for creativity.

There are quite a few blogs on digital detox. Also the netflix film The Social Dilemma. And the book Free Range Kids is worth a read. Apparently the guy who wrote the Simpsons (I think) was told he'd never amount to anything because he was immersed in watching cartoons all day.

Was going to say get them into horses! They will be at the stables all the time 😂

I don't think it's all down to screen time, I think generally we're bringing our children up to be so over stimulated from birth. There's so many baby/toddler classes that we take our children to now. Some parents go to these groups every day from being so young and from there we take our children to so many activities weekly. School children are in school all day every day and then go to after school activities and then there's so many places we take them during the weekend that they're just used to all this stimulation now.

I think there's so many amazing things out there now that we can take children to compared to years ago which is great for obvious reasons but I think we set kids up to not know how to deal with boredom anymore. I know a lot of parents who say they cannot stand being in the house with the children so they take them for a day out. I just think that although these days out are great, children also need to have the down time of being at home being able to self entertain and as soon as they seem bored we get this parent guilt that makes us take over and provide resources or activities for them straight away (most often screen time) which means they don't have that need to entertain themselves or use their imagination anymore

I am the same as you. If I want ‘peace’ I put a kid’s audiobook or songs that she listens to while she is playing/resting. She is never allowed on my or DH phones and we don’t get our laptops out at home u less we really need them (like booking cinema tickets or flights etc).

@stripes416 i agree 💯 - it’s not just screens, it’s general over stimulation, too much choice etc.

This is/was me. Day trips forever, since DS was tiny. Now he expects full on days out every weekend and I am exhausted. Nothing is good enough!

Indeed, that doesn't seem excessive when you include TV and school work.

ime older kids like tasks outside- going for walks/playing in park etc have a shelf life unless there is a big peer-pull factor. Get them involved in hobbies, challenges, or play (manhunt/racing/quick cricket) with them, and they will have a more positive idea of it when you suggest.
also make sure they are comfortable- warm and dry in winter, etc - a surprising no. of perfectly competent parents send teens and younger to forest school without spares/waterproofs/good socks/adequate layers and shoes. This is miserable for them!

We have told our kids "fine waste your life on YouTube if you fail it's not our fault"

Seems to be working so far.

Yes, in my circle we're all home educators though.