Was life really worse as a women when they were expected to stay at home and look after the dc

[hibiscusjam]

And what happened when the dc flew the nest?!.

I wish I could be a sahm but I can't afford to. Curious to hear from people who think it was terrible when society expected women to raise the dc once they had them vs go to work.
I find myself raising my dc and going to work most of the time. It's stressful. My dh travels for work but does help when he's home.

Except they were blaming them and you're just pretending they were. It's a fact.

You can't see why a woman might marry a lower earning partner out of love? It's what the majority of men do.

Of course being in love is a prerequisite! But the factors that determine who we 'love' is obviously influenced by a large number of factors - personality, interests, values, etc as well as looks, background and education/earnings power!

Men do live how they choose to.

Tired of being a dad? Move out and have little/no contact with DC or be a weekend "Disney dad". Don't fancy the responsibility of providing for your family? Let her be a single mother whilst you live elsewhere and continue dating her. Don't like housework? Never mind, lose yourself in an absorbing hobby so you don't notice the dirt and mess. If your hobby involves lots of time outside the home, even better. Your wife will pick up the slack because she's trapped at home by the DC, even if she works, and will get sick of the mess eventually long before you will.

People saying it's choice to work, if you want to be SAHM live somewhere tiny in a bad area, don't have a car to share never mind one each, no holidays etc. If a woman downgraded life like that to be a SAHM what do you think the end result is going to be? Oh that's right, she'll be back at work soon enough when her DH leaves her!

Women facilitate men's lives, they always have done. Whether it's by taking on the majority of home and child related tasks or by bringing in a second income to raise the family's standard of living. If they're lucky they'll get treated well in return, valued for what they do and with an equal division of labour. If they're unlucky they'll end up doing it all, run ragged while the ungrateful sod moans they've "let themselves go".

Most men are intrinsically selfish, believing their own wants and needs come before anyone else's, including that of their wife and DC. Everything is fine while they're largely getting their own way. They prioritise it, leaving a relationship when it no longer works for them. It's easy for them. Their choice is be happy in their family or leave and live the single life free to persue career/relationships/family. Not so easy for a woman to leave when she's having to take the DC with her and if she does, her life is still impacted due to childcare.

Women can leave abusive relationships and that's great, but beyond that there is no real equality or freedom. The traps just look different now.

It should be a choice. We need women in professional roles like drs, lawyers, teachers and politics. Many women are great at their jobs, whichever sector they're in, and are happy and fulfilled.

We should also acknowledge that it's incredibly hard to be a mother and have to work full time, especially if you're a single parent or have a partner working full time time too. I know many struggle with this (some dont) including me, so it helps if jobs can be more flexible. I was able to switch to part time and feel that's the best option for me. I'm sure many more would if the pay was good enough.

That is a massive generalisation!

Women facilitate men's lives

And men facilitate women's lives so it's win-win!!

That's the beauty of a happy and successful partnership imo

lawofselfish it wasn't meant to be logic, I just found it interesting. If I lived my life over again (with the experience I have now) I may well have done differently. I think wanting children to have a different childhood from what you/I had is also a really positive driver to have children; when I was younger I wasn't confident that I could be a good enough mother, and now it's too late.

Indeed. It is a two-way thing. My DH is as happy for me to stay at home as I am for him to earn. Partners together through the journey of life.

I think having an excellent partnership from the get go and continuing that is the key . Some of us don't have a cunt for a husband !

There is a lot of talk about 'empowerment' in modern feminism and most of it is utter bollocks. The changes in society that allowed women to be financially independent from men are one of the few examples of genuine empowerment (I'd say along with the vote).

If a woman is financially dependent on a man, he has power over her. He might be a lovely man who wouldn't use that power, but he has it and she is vulnerable to his good will. Women being able to leave men is absolutely central to equality.

My views are as a result of the great many people I've met in my life and got to know their situations. About 90% of the people I've met are constrained by what their partner wants/allows (yes, "allows" because they do have a tendency to complain constantly about anything they don't like until their partner gives in as a way of obtaining some peace). The only way a woman can maintain true equality IMO is to not have children. A choice that some women would consider awful in itself. Men rule the world and while women have the wombs, they always will.

I think it's obvious that having the choice is important.

However, when there's an obligation to do the vat majority of the parenting and work full time it does beg the question are we having it all or doing it all?

Womne now need to strive for financial independence. And that starts with education.

I think it was only ever a tiny minority of women who lived the sahm ideal. Poor women have always had to work, taking in washing or piece work etc. Rich women have always outsourced a lot of childrearing to nannies, governesses and boarding schools. The women in the middle managed with a bit of domestic help, I'm sure some loved it and some hated it.

I read a Jane Austen biog that said kids in her family were sent off to live with a poor woman in the village from birth to the age of three, barely saw their parents in that time.

This is a myth isn't it? Only women of a certain social standing had the choice. Most women had to work in the "olden days"

Women being able to leave men is absolutely central to equality.

Absolutely. Both partners should have the education and resources to leave the relationship if necessary.

But that doesn't preclude them from dividing their roles so that one partner focuses on their career while the other focuses on the home and family.

That's the wrong way round for me, kids need you more as they get older. It's easier to work FT while they are small (if you can afford childcare) and then makes more sense to work PT when they start school.

And yes having the choice is the key thing. Having access to contraception was a massive change for women, eg my MIL had 4 kids, I don't think she would have done if the Pill had been around when she was in her childbearing years (it was just coming around the time DH, the youngest, was born). My grandmother had 5, I can't think she would have had more than three. And my other grandmother had six, and two died as children. Choice is very important - both to have kids and whether to work (although I think exercising your choice to live off a man is very unwise).

That's the wrong way round for me, kids need you more as they get older.

I meant that it seems rational for women to work full time and be competitive career wise, until they have children (and then choose to give up work or only work part time).

And men facilitate women's lives so it's win-win!!

Good men do, as I said.

That's the beauty of a happy and successful partnership imo

Agreed.

Unfortunately there are more useless/awful/rubbish men with bad attitudes towards women than there are good ones who view women as true equals. That's the problem.

If your DH was resentful (for whatever reason, including unreasonable ones!) of you being a SAHM, you wouldn't be able to do it. You'd be in an unhappy relationship, or you'd "choose" to go out to work to make the relationship a happier one, or one of you would decide to end the relationship. You're only a happy SAHM because your DH is ok with it. That's luck. The arseholes don't walk around with it tattooed on their foreheads, it's not a simple task to ensure you pick a good 'un, there's no foolproof method that guarantees a result.

Women are at men's mercy just as much as they ever were. The only difference now is that, however difficult it may be when there's DC involved, women can leave. That's still not equality though, because men can leave with ease.

Unfortunately there are more useless/awful/rubbish men with bad attitudes towards women than there are good ones who view women as true equals.

I don't agree at all. Most men are decent.

You're only a happy SAHM because your DH is ok with it. That's luck

I don't think it's luck at all. It's due to the respect I earn as a partner in our relationship.

Yes it was worse, as the expectation you would be a SAHM affected your whole life!

My DM was born in the 1950’s. Surprisingly failed her 11 plus. Went to secondary modern where girls we taught less academic subjects. She could have stayed on to sit her CSE’s but it was the norm to leave school at 15 as she grew up in a working class family and in her own words, ‘why would anyone waste money educating a girl as they are just going to get married and have children’.

DM married my dad and gave up work to become a housewife which was expected in those days and had me and DS. Except my dad was a violent and volatile drunk who frittered money away leave little town no money for essentials.

My mum wouldn’t leave because of the ‘shame’ of divorce and it was very much thought that it would ‘damage’ the children and it would be her fault. Also, since she had not career and no qualification she didn’t know how she would support herself and us and my dad often she was worried her children would be taken away.

I would really feel sad If viewed my marriage/ relationship as how easily can I get out of it ! . As a women I went into my relationship fully equipped to be financially stable and make joint decisions with my DH and decisions for myself and do to this day . I knew he was a fantastic guy who has complete respect for women and wanted the same things in life as me and I am his equal. He has been a fantastic role model for our DDs .

Now you can choose to stay at home or not.

And be berated by society (if not your partner as well) regardless of your choice.

Depends on the hand you have been dealt....if you have children with additional needs/complex needs or chronic health issues yourself it's hardly likely to be as successful as you have been in life.

Yikes. That's not my experience at all. I only know one couple like that's and it's my husband's parents. Thankfully I am not, and never will be constrained by my husband. It's not the only way at all. Don't marry an arsehole is half the battle.