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Original poster

Was life really worse as a women when they were expected to stay at home and look after the dc

304 replies

hibiscusjam · 27/11/2022 07:42

And what happened when the dc flew the nest?!.

I wish I could be a sahm but I can't afford to. Curious to hear from people who think it was terrible when society expected women to raise the dc once they had them vs go to work.
I find myself raising my dc and going to work most of the time. It's stressful. My dh travels for work but does help when he's home.

OP posts:
londonmummy1966 · 27/11/2022 22:31

I have a friend who never married/had children who kept her copy of the letter telling her that the marriage bar had been rescinded and that she wouldn't have to leave her job if she got married. Can you imagine losing your job just because you'd tied the knot (in a time when not doing so was a social no no)? I remember the mother of a friend of mine telling me she'd been doing well at Nat West until she married and then she was put back onto the counter (2 grades below where she had been working) on the grounds that she'd get pregnant and have babies soon. How can that be better?

Citycentre3 · 27/11/2022 22:33

I think most women if they are honest with themselves know that it is pretty pointless to be working full time and paying for child care, the amount they are left with is minimal and hardly worth the effort.

But still they buy into this lie that they are sold that it is what they must do while their children are brought up by strangers. It is all nonsense.

I have met gp's, dentists and architects that have taken years off from their career because of the high cost of child care, and yet I have met council workers, waitresses and hairdressers that insist they must go back to work. What are the magic words people? "Universal credit" yes that's right only workers that are claiming universal credit can afford the cost of child care, and why? Well they get an extra £800 a month towards child care costs if they are also claiming benefits. The system is flawed and stupid. So these people declare themselves great because they work and also have young children. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Because they are actually costing the taxpayer more than what they would do if they were at home full time bringing up their own children, but yet the delusion continues, it is utterly farcical!

Marchmount · 27/11/2022 22:37

Only for as long as the breadwinner wants it to be or is able to. A SAHM is gambling their financial future on their DHs benevolence or health. Which is why women are so vulnerable if they don’t have a means of supporting properly themselves. Of course it works out a lot of the time - see all the happy wives here. This is not a gamble that many women are prepared to take which is why it would be truly awful to re-adopt a system where women didn’t have that choice.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Families
RosettaStormer · 27/11/2022 22:37

Citycentre3 · 27/11/2022 22:33

I think most women if they are honest with themselves know that it is pretty pointless to be working full time and paying for child care, the amount they are left with is minimal and hardly worth the effort.

But still they buy into this lie that they are sold that it is what they must do while their children are brought up by strangers. It is all nonsense.

I have met gp's, dentists and architects that have taken years off from their career because of the high cost of child care, and yet I have met council workers, waitresses and hairdressers that insist they must go back to work. What are the magic words people? "Universal credit" yes that's right only workers that are claiming universal credit can afford the cost of child care, and why? Well they get an extra £800 a month towards child care costs if they are also claiming benefits. The system is flawed and stupid. So these people declare themselves great because they work and also have young children. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Because they are actually costing the taxpayer more than what they would do if they were at home full time bringing up their own children, but yet the delusion continues, it is utterly farcical!

Absolutely right.

Tekkentime · 27/11/2022 22:42

TimandGinger · 27/11/2022 21:10

Most jobs are incredibly boring and unfulfilling, for men and women. If you have a high flying job as a lawyer for example that you love, you’re in a tiny minority. Ask the secretary of the lawyer if she would rather be at home and you’ll probably get a different answer.
I’m not sure why mumsnet regards looking after the people you love as drudgery, but working for someone else or a corporation is fufillment.
I do work btw, but I do a job that is flexible around my children. It’s seen as interesting by outsiders, but has plenty of boring bits just like most jobs.

Show quote history

Couldn't agree more, life's not a feel good movie for many.

Onnabugeisha · 27/11/2022 22:43

Citycentre3 · 27/11/2022 22:33

I think most women if they are honest with themselves know that it is pretty pointless to be working full time and paying for child care, the amount they are left with is minimal and hardly worth the effort.

But still they buy into this lie that they are sold that it is what they must do while their children are brought up by strangers. It is all nonsense.

I have met gp's, dentists and architects that have taken years off from their career because of the high cost of child care, and yet I have met council workers, waitresses and hairdressers that insist they must go back to work. What are the magic words people? "Universal credit" yes that's right only workers that are claiming universal credit can afford the cost of child care, and why? Well they get an extra £800 a month towards child care costs if they are also claiming benefits. The system is flawed and stupid. So these people declare themselves great because they work and also have young children. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Because they are actually costing the taxpayer more than what they would do if they were at home full time bringing up their own children, but yet the delusion continues, it is utterly farcical!

They don’t have a choice. DWP forces parents too look for work as soon as a child is 3.

Tekkentime · 27/11/2022 22:44

cempasuchil · 27/11/2022 21:25

So the "why have children?" part just applies to women?

Children deserve at least one parent at home, either is good.

Cuddlywuddlies · 27/11/2022 22:47

@Tekkentime its hardly beneficial to them to have a parent at home if said parent is miserable!! I’d rather two happy parents than one feeling stuck and miserable at home!!

Tekkentime · 27/11/2022 22:52

Cuddlywuddlies · 27/11/2022 22:47

@Tekkentime its hardly beneficial to them to have a parent at home if said parent is miserable!! I’d rather two happy parents than one feeling stuck and miserable at home!!

Then it's a full circle back to 'why have children' like the poster asked.

converseandjeans · 27/11/2022 22:58

@Eixample

A lack of choice is always worse. Now you can choose to stay at home or not

But I had no choice. DH was in his first year of teaching & I was back working when DD was 4 months. It was really stressful when they were tiny. I managed to not have time off with children being ill and mine thankfully slept really well. But for my wellbeing it would have been better to have at least a few years off.

Cuddlywuddlies · 27/11/2022 23:05

@Tekkentime i had children because I wanted them…I stayed home for nearly 6 years!! I hated it…I didn’t think I would hate it and i wouldn’t have believed you for a minute if you had told me beforehand! It’s lonely, frustrating and boring imo. I’m not going to hand my dc back am i!! Ffs!

Tekkentime · 27/11/2022 23:08

Cuddlywuddlies · 27/11/2022 23:05

@Tekkentime i had children because I wanted them…I stayed home for nearly 6 years!! I hated it…I didn’t think I would hate it and i wouldn’t have believed you for a minute if you had told me beforehand! It’s lonely, frustrating and boring imo. I’m not going to hand my dc back am i!! Ffs!

I'm confused tbh, I didn't ask about your personal life, I was replying to someone else.

Changechangychange · 28/11/2022 00:16

londonmummy1966 · 27/11/2022 22:31

I have a friend who never married/had children who kept her copy of the letter telling her that the marriage bar had been rescinded and that she wouldn't have to leave her job if she got married. Can you imagine losing your job just because you'd tied the knot (in a time when not doing so was a social no no)? I remember the mother of a friend of mine telling me she'd been doing well at Nat West until she married and then she was put back onto the counter (2 grades below where she had been working) on the grounds that she'd get pregnant and have babies soon. How can that be better?

They had they in the civil service. It was called the “Marriage Gratuity”, and you were paid an extra months’ wages or something but lost all of your seniority. DM was devastated when that happened to her.

Women also left work as soon as they fell pregnant (or at least once they were confident they were past the risky stage for miscarriage) because why wouldn’t you? You had no maternity leave and couldn’t go back once you’d had the baby, so you might as well leave at 4 months’ pregnant and put your feet up.

Sammz21 · 28/11/2022 00:29

KangarooKenny · 27/11/2022 08:07

I was a SAHM for a while when the kids were small and it was great. I had a good routine for housework/lawn/food shop, and I was available if there were things at school or one of them was ill.
However, I did everything, DH never got up in the night or rang in sick because the kids were ill, I facilitated his career and very good wage by sacrificing my career. When I did go back to work it was PT as the kids and house are seen as my job now.
I have virtually no pension now, he always said his pension was ‘our’ pension, but I have no say over it as it’s in his name. I’m very grateful that I didn’t have to do the whole work/childcare thing that others struggle with, but I’m feeling the downside of that now.

Yes, I am in a similar situation.
Facilitated my then husband's career and can only earn half of what he does.
Now he's ex husband, so will not even benefit from his pension.
so it's grrrrrr on a bad day !!

Purplemagnolias · 28/11/2022 08:35

Regarding pensions, your years as a parent still qualify towards your state pension. I think you get credits until your youngest is age 12.

Ineverwannabelikeyou · 28/11/2022 08:59

Citycentre3 · 27/11/2022 22:33

I think most women if they are honest with themselves know that it is pretty pointless to be working full time and paying for child care, the amount they are left with is minimal and hardly worth the effort.

But still they buy into this lie that they are sold that it is what they must do while their children are brought up by strangers. It is all nonsense.

I have met gp's, dentists and architects that have taken years off from their career because of the high cost of child care, and yet I have met council workers, waitresses and hairdressers that insist they must go back to work. What are the magic words people? "Universal credit" yes that's right only workers that are claiming universal credit can afford the cost of child care, and why? Well they get an extra £800 a month towards child care costs if they are also claiming benefits. The system is flawed and stupid. So these people declare themselves great because they work and also have young children. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Because they are actually costing the taxpayer more than what they would do if they were at home full time bringing up their own children, but yet the delusion continues, it is utterly farcical!

We got nothing and yet I had to go back to work because one wage was not enough to survive on. I was working for maybe £100 a month but we needed it!

Two other words. Wealthy husband.

If I had one of those I wouldn't have gone back.

I think it's unfair to demonise people on UC, I mean yes it fucks me off that the middle earners gets the worst of both worlds, works full time and is skint and barely sees kids, but I don't blame anyone entitled for taking it and running with it to be honest.

Onnabugeisha · 28/11/2022 09:46

Purplemagnolias · 28/11/2022 08:35

Regarding pensions, your years as a parent still qualify towards your state pension. I think you get credits until your youngest is age 12.

I’m not sure exactly when that came into effect, but it wasn’t the case for my mum’s generation (the baby boomers). You got no credit towards state pension if you took time out of work to raise children. And if/when you went back to work there was this married woman’s stamp where you paid less NIC and got a lower state pension because it was assumed you’d have your husbands pension coming in and could inherit it if he passed. This was in the 1970s/80s

The rules have changed a lot over the past fifty years. I don’t know exactly when this changed, but it wasn’t how it is today.

TruckerBarbie · 28/11/2022 19:59

I always see this rhetoric that working full time is some kind of privilege. However, I don't get the impression that most women would be happy to work FT and support the husband staying at home. It's an odd cognitive dissonance/denial.

entropynow · 29/11/2022 00:07

silverclock222 · 27/11/2022 07:54

Wouldn't have had it any other way tbh. Best for the family as a whole. I'll probably be the only one who says this mind you however perhaps raising a family the old fashioned way is why 4 kids (youngest now 50) have turned out very well. No issues with drink/drugs/shit marriagea etc. Its a shame neither girl had their own family however the two boys have and they repeated the same pattern with the same success.

Smug nonsense. I know plenty of families with SAHM whose children went seriously off the rails and plenty not ( including mine, my mother worked in the 60s and 70s when it was very rare in the middle classes) whose kids did very well and are upstanding citizens.
Just because you've decided your sole purpose in life is motherhood, you don't have the right to preach it's the right course for everyone.

entropynow · 29/11/2022 00:11

entropynow · 29/11/2022 00:07

Smug nonsense. I know plenty of families with SAHM whose children went seriously off the rails and plenty not ( including mine, my mother worked in the 60s and 70s when it was very rare in the middle classes) whose kids did very well and are upstanding citizens.
Just because you've decided your sole purpose in life is motherhood, you don't have the right to preach it's the right course for everyone.

Show quote history

Also I wonder why, if it's so perfect, neither daughter has wanted it? Example of a domestic servant obviously not too aspirational there...

Newcatbrowntail · 29/11/2022 00:18

My mum was severely depressed as SAHM in the 60’s , the doc suggested she get a job to get her out of the house. So she she did teacher training as she wasn’t happy being a SAHM when it was the norm.

Dreamwhisper · 30/11/2022 13:35

What are the magic words people? "Universal credit" yes that's right only workers that are claiming universal credit can afford the cost of child care, and why? Well they get an extra £800 a month towards child care costs if they are also claiming benefits. The system is flawed and stupid. So these people declare themselves great because they work and also have young children. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Because they are actually costing the taxpayer more than what they would do if they were at home full time bringing up their own children, but yet the delusion continues, it is utterly farcical!

I agree with this part, in that there is utter hypocrisy in people criticising parents who don't work and "sponge off the system", not realising that if those parents with young DC worked, they would be entitled to far more that what they are currently claiming.

This is often expressed in the classic line you see on Mnet and other places where people will be angry at or critical of mothers who choose to work time because the cost of childcare means they're only marginally benefitting anyway, once all childcare has been paid.

Dreamwhisper · 30/11/2022 13:37

choose to work part time* that should say

Boshi · 30/11/2022 13:42

I understand the point you are making OP. Supposedly these days working or staying at home is a choice, but we know in reality not everyone has a choice. Ditto raising kids by yourself effectively and having to work when your DH/DP refuses to share the load.

Women have stepped up to share the burden of bringing in an income but until men do the same at home it’s a poor choice for many.

Purplemagnolias · 30/11/2022 16:16

Women have stepped up to share the burden of bringing in an income but until men do the same at home it’s a poor choice for many.

Yes.

Men could work part time too and share the burden of looking after children/home.

Or men focus on their careers and women look after children/home, so both partners share the burden that way. Division of labour.