Was life really worse as a women when they were expected to stay at home and look after the dc

[hibiscusjam]

And what happened when the dc flew the nest?!.

I wish I could be a sahm but I can't afford to. Curious to hear from people who think it was terrible when society expected women to raise the dc once they had them vs go to work.
I find myself raising my dc and going to work most of the time. It's stressful. My dh travels for work but does help when he's home.

My female ancestors didn’t have the choice to be SAHMs. My family was too poor back then. Needed every wage they could get. Some of them were WAHMs..as in took in washing, sewing, baked pies to sell to pubs, or were child minders for factory women. But the bored housewife really only applied to the privilege middle and upper classes.

I think for most women the backlash to having a high powered high earning career is not seeing much of their children and having them largely being brought up by someone else. Its not a trade off worth doing in many cases. Why have children if you’re going to be working king hours and coming home exhausted? I would never have wanted that for myself. So I accepted that OH worked those hours and I stayed at home whilst they were little. I worked in jobs that fitted around.school hours when they were older. I didn’t enjoy the jobs but it was money and it gave me some sense of being ‘out in the world’. OH and I have the same class of degree in the same subject but I wasn’t hugely career driven and didn’t want to spend most of my waking hours working as he did. In many ways he got a raw deal. He got the career success but broke his health in the process and had little time for himself.

To expect that most women should be happy as SAHMs is as ludicrous as expecting every man to be suited to the armed forces.

I suspect that depending on what your neighbouring community was like, being a SAHM may not have been as isolating in the past as it is today. My MIL was always chatting and socialising with neighbours who also had young children and she was also close, both physically and emotionally to her sisters and their families. But when my DCs were little, it was like a ghost town during the day with everyone at work, and extended family were as likely to be on the other side of the world as the other side of town.

Betty Friedan (The Feminine Mystique) and Ann Oakley (Housework) are worth revisiting for comment on the isolation of middle class housewives in the 1960s/70s.

Very true

Why have children if you’re going to be working king hours and coming home exhausted? I would never have wanted that for myself. So I accepted that OH worked those hours....

Don't you see the contradiction there?

I mean, why did your OH have kids if he's working all hours and coming home exhausted?

I think the sad thing is the inability now to survive on one income for most.

Most jobs are incredibly boring and unfulfilling, for men and women. If you have a high flying job as a lawyer for example that you love, you’re in a tiny minority. Ask the secretary of the lawyer if she would rather be at home and you’ll probably get a different answer.
I’m not sure why mumsnet regards looking after the people you love as drudgery, but working for someone else or a corporation is fufillment.
I do work btw, but I do a job that is flexible around my children. It’s seen as interesting by outsiders, but has plenty of boring bits just like most jobs.

"for most women the backlash to having a high powered high earning career is not seeing much of their children and having them largely being brought up by someone else"

Nonsense. Most high powered women I know also made sure they innovated and got a working pattern that meant they saw their children.

When mine were little I did 3 days in the office and rest of the hours when they napped/in evenings. Once they started school I switched to 9.30-2.30 and rest of hours in the evening. I made sure I was highly valued so I could set my own hours.

But my dad did 7-7 days often with travel and worked part of most Sundays (barrister) and I still absolutely feel that he brought me up and I was and am incredibly close to him. We don't seem to judge men if they have high powered jobs and children

Most jobs are incredibly boring and unfulfilling,

I think I am so lucky here. My parents (and indeed their parents) taught us to aspire to have a career that interested and fulfilled us, and to value that over money. I absolutely love my job, it's endlessly fascinating and I always feel like I am making a difference. I guess I can see that women might feel fed up about working if they felt bored and unfulfilled, but what about their husbands should they be stuck at work if they feel the same?

You are very lucky to have a choice
about your hours and where you work. That’s a luxury not the norm.

Because one of us had to do that.

Nonsense. Most high powered women I know also made sure they innovated and got a working pattern that meant they saw their children.

Depends on your definition of high-powered. Even among high earners the ability to choose your hours is very unusual unless you work for yourself. In most cases the high salary means your employer has first dibs on your time.

So the "why have children?" part just applies to women?

Isn't a better solution for both parents to work part time?

It wasnt just luck although I accept that played a part. I was very strategic in the career path and jobs I chose and also worked incredibly hard in the evenings to show my employer it could work

I don't know, I find at a senior level most of us have a fairly large say in working patterns, far more so than at a junior level.

You have answer for everything.

So what type of man should we have then a total fucking wimp who is henpecked by every women he's ever met and terrified to make decisions with his wife for fear of being accused of bullying her ?

You sound rather self satisfied. Lucky you , having a senior role where you can set your own hours. Most women are not in that position .

Yes

Because not all professions can have part time. My DH works 18 hour night shifts if he asked to go part time he'd be laughed out of the place .

My grandmother never worked, even when her DC were all adults. I never asked her but she seemed pretty happy shopping, pottering around at home and meeting friends for coffee. I very much doubt she wanted to work. She was quite the lady of leisure.

Isn't a better solution for both parents to work part time?

To succeed in a competitive industry you need to work full time, in my experience.

It makes sense for a couple to choose one partner that focuses on their career
and the other to look after the family. That way both partners are better off.

a partner at home who sacrifices herself and her ambitions to support the man so that he can fulfil himself, gather more money and power, yeah that's so equal isnt it
ha ha ha
you're so funny aren't you

Hmm, I'm not so sure.

Most non-working women with high earning husbands seem to have a pretty privileged life from what I've seen. Obv there will be exceptions to the rule but they're hardly the most struggling members of society let's be honest.

So you think that when a woman's partner doesn't respect her, it's her own fault? She's not being an equal partner in the relationship? She hasn't earned his respect?

Or could it just be that I'm right and some men will never truly respect women or consider them their equal?

Where a woman doesn't have her partner's respect, from my experience, in 99% of cases the problem is with the man's attitude towards women and his prioritisation of himself at all costs.

Most men seem decent. Until you scratch the surface. It's easy to seem decent to people who don't know you all that well. Someone can be a good friend, colleague etc and also be a rubbish husband/partner.

Yeah that’s a new thing. When my DC were young, flexible working was unheard of much less the legal right it is now. And where I worked, everyone Director level and above was required to work M-F coming in no later than 8 and leaving no earlier than 4. It came with the promotion. They didn’t care about indirect discrimination against parents or school runs.