DD doesn’t want to do her promise at Brownies

[BrowniePromiseNo]

She’s 8. She loves Brownies but doesn’t want to do the promise.

Brown Owl is fine with it and has said if she feels ready just to let her know and she’ll arrange it.

She enjoys the meetings and gets a lot out of it, it’s bought her out of herself a lot and she definitely has friends there that are not at her school as she will wave at other girls when we see them in the supermarket, she’s watched other girls do their promise and knows those girls got to choose how their promise was done – so those who liked a big fuss did it in front of their friends and parents and sang lots of songs, others did it in the corner with BO another leader and her sixer, others have recorded it and just had their promise badge handed to them at the next meeting – but DD is adamant she doesn’t want to ever do hers.

Will not doing her promise hold her back? She doesn’t seem to be bothered about the badges so much, but she definitely enjoys it as she always comes out happy. She doesn’t really tell me what goes on there but she doesn’t say negative things and doesn’t resist going and Brown Owl says she’s happy enough there. But just wondered if it will hold her back?

Hold her back in what way?

@CherrySocks as in stop her being involved in certain things, I don't know maybe she won;t be allowed to do somethings at meetings due to not doing her promise

Why does she say she doesn’t want to do it?

@TheSausageKingofChicago She just says she doesn't want to, I've tried to explore why but she just says she's not bothered about doing it.

Boundaries make kids thrive. She's trying to test the boundaries. Do the adults really mean it? Yes, the adults really mean it. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.

I think this is one of those times where you say, look, you have to do your promise, it's part of Brownies, it's part of the history of Brownies, if you don't want to do it then it's not okay to be a Brownie.

Allowing kids to opt-out of things like this creates weak boundaries.

If you say no to this, what is next, oh no you don't need to do the exams? Oh no darling, you don't need to get a job and leave home?

Parents and leaders need spine, and kids need them to have spine too.

I'm a guide leader. There's info here about the promise so you could talk to her about it:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/what-makes-guiding-special/the-promise/

One of my girls was nervous to stand up infront of everyone so we just did it in another room.

Importantly the link above says they are invited to make the promise, it's not mandatory. It wouldn't hold her back and I'm not aware there's anything she couldn't do if she doesn't do her promise.

I see The Promise still involves saying you will serve the King.

I wouldn't want to have to make that promise either.

Is she worried about the meaning of it, and breaking it?

@SwimmingFree Thank you that's very helpful, Brown Owl has offered her to do it at home and send in the video if she doesn't want to do it in front of everyone or is worried about getting it wrong but DD just says she doesn't want to do it

Nope. It’s bollocks

Boundaries make kids thrive, so let them set their own (appropriate) ones and respect them.

Brown Owl here! It wont hold her back in terms of meeting activities or obtaining badges, although you do need to have made your promise to receive your Gold award.

However, its a pretty integral part of the ethos behind Girlguiding. If she were in my unit, I'd very gently (over the course of several months if needed) try to understand a bit more about why she feels that way. Does she understand the requirements of the promise and to follow the brownie law? Is she willing to do that even without making the promise? If so, I'd be fine with that for now and maybe try again when she's a bit older!

In cubs we got a few different versions my child could say - so you didn't have to mention the king.
Surely brownies has this too?

Lol. What a leap. Not wanting to say the brownie promise is nothing like any of that.

maybe she doesn’t feel ready to keep the promise yet so doesn’t want to make it until she does.

Is there a version that doesn't include god or the king?

I had similar experience with DS at beavers/cubs/scouts. He didn't (and still doesn't) like to make promises in case he can't keep them.

Despite what a previous poster said, I don't think not taking the prmoise will lead to unemployment or worse! 🙄

Taking part and joining in is the most important thing. Luckily his brilliant Scout leaders agree!

From what I know of speaking to Brown Owl she would adjust the wording if that's a problem, she apparently had a girl do her promise a few years who was deaf so they did the promise both spoken and in sign language, so I don't think it's a problem with how it's done if that makes sense as Brown Owl seems very flexible especially as she's been offered to record it at home and send it in.

Yes...there are a few versions that can be used by different religions and none at all.

I wonder if anyone had told her that she shouldn't make promises? Or promises she can't keep? Or maybe she broke a promise once and it got to her in some way?

I wouldn't make her do it, but I would try to encourage her to share what's offputting about it to her. And she needs to trust that you're not desperately wanting her to do it, if she's going to open up.

@saraclara No pressure for her to do it, it would be nice but I'm neither here nor there about it especially now I know it won't stop her fully taking part if she doesn't do it.

Not in Brownies there isn't.

The Brownie promise doesn't reference God at all. It refers to beliefs which can be any or none at all.

It does however refer to King. The pp linked to the Girlguiding webpage which explains that the King represents the country we live in. So there isn't an official option for a "no King" version although i know a few leaders who fudge around the wording for those girls / parents who do not want to make a promise reference the monarch.

Given that she has been offered so many ways of doing it and still refuses I would just leave it. I do also agree though about not letting kids rule the roost on this stuff.

Is there a version that doesn't include god or the king?...

...or brownies? 🤔

The brownie program has changed now. It used to be good when they went into the forest and looked for the brownie, peering into the mirror of reflection etc.

I think you can still do the badges, but not wear the uniform. My DD loved brownies. Then randomly one day refused to go. She was too old. Sad times.