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Original poster

DD doesn’t want to do her promise at Brownies

134 replies

BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 20:37

She’s 8. She loves Brownies but doesn’t want to do the promise.

Brown Owl is fine with it and has said if she feels ready just to let her know and she’ll arrange it.

She enjoys the meetings and gets a lot out of it, it’s bought her out of herself a lot and she definitely has friends there that are not at her school as she will wave at other girls when we see them in the supermarket, she’s watched other girls do their promise and knows those girls got to choose how their promise was done – so those who liked a big fuss did it in front of their friends and parents and sang lots of songs, others did it in the corner with BO another leader and her sixer, others have recorded it and just had their promise badge handed to them at the next meeting – but DD is adamant she doesn’t want to ever do hers.

Will not doing her promise hold her back? She doesn’t seem to be bothered about the badges so much, but she definitely enjoys it as she always comes out happy. She doesn’t really tell me what goes on there but she doesn’t say negative things and doesn’t resist going and Brown Owl says she’s happy enough there. But just wondered if it will hold her back?

OP posts:
bangersandmash2 · 22/11/2022 21:06

Try and get to the bottom of why she doesn't want to do it

youcantry · 22/11/2022 21:06

The Promise has thankfully changed! Why does she have a problem with it? Seems like it's just about being a decent person now. I would ask her why she takes offence by it and discuss.
Good to see they that the 'duty to God' thing has been removed. In the 90's I advised my daughter to change that to 'Universe' and it was accepted.
I'm not particularly bothered about the ''serve the King' bit as would interpret it to be a law abiding citizen.
The promise was ridiculous in the 70s - I got booted out for disagreeing with Brown Owl (I was an outspoken child). But then it was so long ago that we carried a coin in our belt purse to make an emergency call and wore a stupid dress and neck tie!
However, both my children went to rainbows, beavers, cubs, and Brownies. They offer a lot of great social activities for a low cost with very dedicated volunteers. My daughter later volunteered at her younger brothers Cub group for her DoE award.
It's a bit puzzling why she would refuse, particularly as she enjoys being at the group??

Original poster
BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 21:07

DobbyTheHouseElk · 22/11/2022 21:05

The brownie program has changed now. It used to be good when they went into the forest and looked for the brownie, peering into the mirror of reflection etc.

I think you can still do the badges, but not wear the uniform. My DD loved brownies. Then randomly one day refused to go. She was too old. Sad times.

@DobbyTheHouseElk Our Brownies still do the mirror of reflection I think, I've heard some of the other girls talk about a mirror and shouting "Myself" as they come out some nights. Ours also do a lot of Forest Walks, we're constantly getting messages asking for wellies/coats/umbrellas to be sent in for a meeting.

OP posts:

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Magenta82 · 22/11/2022 21:07

MarshaMelrose · 22/11/2022 21:05

Is there a version that doesn't include god or the king?...

...or brownies? 🤔

Well the helping other people part is nice, but god and the monarchy are less useful

Daisydreaming1 · 22/11/2022 21:11

Watchthesunrise · 22/11/2022 20:48

If you say no to this, what is next, oh no you don't need to do the exams? Oh no darling, you don't need to get a job and leave home?

Parents and leaders need spine, and kids need them to have spine too.

Jesus Christ. That escalated quickly!

Fordian · 22/11/2022 21:11

God, if your child doesn't want to meet the expectations of the Guide or Scout movements, remove them and send them to a youth club!

Stop this ridiculous pussy-footing around.

It's like going to church and feeling uncomfortable about the concept of God. But still wanting to go to church.

Sometimes you have to be in or out.

LadyGaGasPokerFace · 22/11/2022 21:13

When my dds did their promises I printed off the words for the leader to hold in case they forgot them. Is she worried about other girls watching her do it?

Original poster
BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 21:19

I don't know why she doesn't want to do it, I've tried offering different ways too, like us recording it and me holding the promise by the camera or her reading off the card. I even asked her if there was anything she liked or didn't like about any of the promises she saw so we could discuss it but she just said she didn't want to do hers and she neither liked or disliked anything.

She's always been quiet and shy.

OP posts:
Watchthesunrise · 22/11/2022 21:20

But lack of boundaries does escalate quickly. Into poorly regulated young adults. I know the Brownie Promise just one tiny thing, but is it indicative of other areas where mum and dad find it too hard to say no?

Parenting www.verywellmind.com/what-is-permissive-parenting-2794957

SockQueen · 22/11/2022 21:21

Another Brownie leader here. I think she can do everything in Brownies except get her Gold award, without making her promise. I'd be interested to know why she doesn't want to do it though!

whoareyouinviting · 22/11/2022 21:21

Watchthesunrise · 22/11/2022 20:46

Boundaries make kids thrive. She's trying to test the boundaries. Do the adults really mean it? Yes, the adults really mean it. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.

I think this is one of those times where you say, look, you have to do your promise, it's part of Brownies, it's part of the history of Brownies, if you don't want to do it then it's not okay to be a Brownie.

Allowing kids to opt-out of things like this creates weak boundaries.

See my initial reaction was that I felt it shows the signs of good independent thinker and actually so long as it's not a big issue that affects anyone else then let her express what her preference is. It's a good life lesson for her to not follow the crowd so long as she's not upsetting or harming others.

underneaththeash · 22/11/2022 21:23

I’m a brown owl.
don’t push it, she’ll come round in her own time.

bangersandmash2 · 22/11/2022 21:25

underneaththeash · 22/11/2022 21:23

I’m a brown owl.
don’t push it, she’ll come round in her own time.

Wise advice

saraclara · 22/11/2022 21:26

BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 21:19

I don't know why she doesn't want to do it, I've tried offering different ways too, like us recording it and me holding the promise by the camera or her reading off the card. I even asked her if there was anything she liked or didn't like about any of the promises she saw so we could discuss it but she just said she didn't want to do hers and she neither liked or disliked anything.

She's always been quiet and shy.

It sound as though she doesn't want to be the centre of attention. Which she still would be if you videoed her making the promise.

I was really self conscious as a child, and I can see how just speaking those words and making a promise publicly (even just in front of my parents and a camera) could have been excruciating for me.

DobbyTheHouseElk · 22/11/2022 21:31

When my DD got her gold award she had to remake her promise. She had forgotten it. Whoops.

Id let her be for now. See if she comes round.

Original poster
BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 21:40

Thank you everyone, neither I or Brown Owl mention it unless DD does. I'll leave her be.

She's not that badge motivated, she has a couple but seems to just love being there. When I've been able to watch meetings or have seen the very end of a meeting she seems happy enough, takes part in the songs and games, so I'll just leave her to it unless she mentions Gold.

The wording on the website says "Invited" which to me suggests it's optional.

OP posts:
OwlOfBrown · 22/11/2022 21:52

I am also a Brown Owl.

There is absolutely no requirement for any girl to make their promise if they don't want to. It is an entirely personal decision. It sounds like your DD's Brown Owl is right on the money with this so no worries there. There are lots of reasons why girls might not want to do it - nervous about standing in front of other people to say it, nervous about the enormity of making a promise that they feel they have to keep, ...

It won't hold her back in that she can still enjoy all of the experiences and opportunities that Guiding offers. The only thing she wouldn't be able to complete is her Brownie Gold Award as that does require her to make her promise. But not completing that won't have any bearing on what she can achieve later on at Guides, etc.

And yes, she may change her mind in time.

dropthevipers · 22/11/2022 21:56

Just explain to her that she is joining the brownies, not Baader-Meinhof.

Original poster
BrowniePromiseNo · 22/11/2022 21:59

She wears the uniform; well the Tshirt and body warmer with her own trousers. For all intents and purposes she's the same as the other girls in her unit she just hasn't done the promise.

But it doesn't bother me now I know it won't stop her doing anything.

OP posts:
Narwhalsh · 22/11/2022 22:03

As an aside (which has been bugging me!)

Beavers promise:

I promise to do my best to be kind and helpful and to love our world.

Brownies Promise:

I promise that I will do my best, to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the King and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide Law.

Anyone else notice these are (still) not equal?!

Luredbyapomegranate · 22/11/2022 22:07

Watchthesunrise · 22/11/2022 20:46

Boundaries make kids thrive. She's trying to test the boundaries. Do the adults really mean it? Yes, the adults really mean it. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.

I think this is one of those times where you say, look, you have to do your promise, it's part of Brownies, it's part of the history of Brownies, if you don't want to do it then it's not okay to be a Brownie.

Allowing kids to opt-out of things like this creates weak boundaries.

It does not

She’s asserting herself and there’s nothing wrong with that. little girls are often trained to do what other people want and expect, so all power to her for not doing it. She has a gut feeling she doesn’t want to and that should be respected.

It’s not the masons and it won’t be a problem as the brown owl says

It will be interesting to ask her when she’s older and more articulate why she didn’t want to.

PuttingDownRoots · 22/11/2022 22:07

Cubs Promise: I promise I will do my best, to do my duty to God and the King, to help other people and keep the Cub Scout law.

Beavers are younger than Brownies hence the easier Promise.

GuidingSpirit · 22/11/2022 22:09

Narwhalsh · 22/11/2022 22:03

As an aside (which has been bugging me!)

Beavers promise:

I promise to do my best to be kind and helpful and to love our world.

Brownies Promise:

I promise that I will do my best, to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the King and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide Law.

Anyone else notice these are (still) not equal?!

Beavers are age 6-8 so the lower end overlaps more with Rainbows, who are 5-7 and have the promise of "I promise that I will do my best to think about my beliefs and to be kind and helpful". I think that's more in line. It would be nice if Rainbows had the "love our world" element though. I like that!

purpleme12 · 22/11/2022 22:14

PuttingDownRoots · 22/11/2022 22:07

Cubs Promise: I promise I will do my best, to do my duty to God and the King, to help other people and keep the Cub Scout law.

Beavers are younger than Brownies hence the easier Promise.

We had various versions given out to my child at cubs
So you didn't have to say that

CakeCrumbs44 · 22/11/2022 22:17

Beavers and Brownies aren't the same age.

Beavers and Rainbows are (mostly) the same age and the promise is similar.

Cubs and Brownies are more of less the same age and the promise is similar.

Cubs: I promise that I will do my best
to uphold our Scout values,
To do my duty to The King,
To help other people
And to keep the Cub Scout Law. (There are also some different religious variations)

Brownies: I promise that I will do my best to be true to myself and develop my beliefs,
To serve the King and my community,
To help other people
And to keep the Brownie Guide Law.

Very very similar.