DD doesn’t want to do her promise at Brownies

[BrowniePromiseNo]

She’s 8. She loves Brownies but doesn’t want to do the promise.

Brown Owl is fine with it and has said if she feels ready just to let her know and she’ll arrange it.

She enjoys the meetings and gets a lot out of it, it’s bought her out of herself a lot and she definitely has friends there that are not at her school as she will wave at other girls when we see them in the supermarket, she’s watched other girls do their promise and knows those girls got to choose how their promise was done – so those who liked a big fuss did it in front of their friends and parents and sang lots of songs, others did it in the corner with BO another leader and her sixer, others have recorded it and just had their promise badge handed to them at the next meeting – but DD is adamant she doesn’t want to ever do hers.

Will not doing her promise hold her back? She doesn’t seem to be bothered about the badges so much, but she definitely enjoys it as she always comes out happy. She doesn’t really tell me what goes on there but she doesn’t say negative things and doesn’t resist going and Brown Owl says she’s happy enough there. But just wondered if it will hold her back?

You don't seem to understand what their expectations are yourself. The promise isn't compulsory.

I would have no huge issue with her not making the promise, though I'd re-emphasize that the purpose of making the promise is about making a connection and being part of something bigger than just the group she is in.
However, I would have issue with her refusing to do something and not being able to explain why (either because she doesn't want to tell you or doesn't understand her own feelings about it), so I'd spend some time trying to put some words around her reasons. "I don't want to because I don't want to" doesn't work, and sets her up wrong for other things in life. She needs to be able to explain reasoning, in this case at least to you or to the brownie leader.

As an aside, I see from other comments that the promise has changed since I was a brownie, which, admittedly, was a very long time ago! In the early 80s it used to be
"I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God, to serve the Queen and help other people and keep the Brownie Guide law."
The law was/is still the same, but we also had a motto back then too "Lend a hand". Happy days.

oh, the memories...
I promise to do my best,
to God, the Queen and my country;
to help other people every day,
especially those at home.

Motto: Lend s hand!

I was an elf:
this is what we do as elves:
think of others, not ourselves.

and a gnome:
this is what we do as gnomes:
helping mother in our homes!

Although dated, good memories. I have my very tiny uniform packed away as a keepsake.

Did your DD give you a reason? It must be very important for her. I'd respect it. Does she plan to fly up? I'm sure she still can without making the promise. Joining Guides wasn't predicated on having been a Brownie when I was a girl.

too-witt-too-witt-too-woo!

Why is anyone making a child do anything they don't want to do?

@Adultchildofelderlyparents oh, I just saw your reply - I had forgotten, "to do my just".
@Fordian I have to disagree with your comparison which seems a little strong. Surely one can attend church without believing in God? Isn't there a verse somewhere in the new testament about the narrow gate? Not meaning to argue, however. I think children are much more encouraged to think for themselves now and I'm quite interested in the thoughts of this OP's 6-7 year old! She must have a very good reason! 😀

@Mumtobabyhavoc I started as a gnome, but I became a pixie when I was promoted to a sixer, a very proud day. "Look out we’re the sprightly pixies, helping people when in fixes". Always bugged me that pixies/fixes didn't actually rhyme properly!

It seems strange that she says she enjoys Brownies but doesn't want to do the promise - the thing that actually makes it Brownies and not just any old kids club.

It's been quite a few years since I was involved but without making the promise someone would have been limited. No promise badge; they could join in all the activities for other badges but wouldn't have been eligible to get any of them, wouldn't be able to be a sixer, could join guides but without the relevant - highest - award badge would not have been able to "fly up". Thank goodness I never had that situation- kids who dropped out, but not staying as a permanent "recruit".

It's changed a bit over the years.
Mine was

I promise to do my best
To do my duty to God
To serve the Queen
And to keep the brownie guide law

I also had a brown dress and a bobble hat. The dress came with a belt that had a pouch on it. The badges went up the sleeve and I think I ran out of room.

The brownie program has changed now. It used to be good when they went into the forest and looked for the brownie, peering into the mirror of reflection etc.

That's a shame, I have fond memories of making mine, pretending a mirror on the floor was a pond. Next you'll be telling me they don't dance round the toadstool any more!

How lovely you remember! A much simpler time, wasn't it!

And I seem to remember before Brownies I was a Tweenie, or something like that. Does that sound familiar?

Part of me quite admires these kids that can think for themselves this way. I quite like a rebellious streak and think it does no harm, especially in girls/women.

I would want to make sure it wasn’t just nerves though. It would be a shame if it was just that and a way round the issue wasn’t found such as those suggested

From what I understand, there is going to be a name change in the next year or so, to be more inclusive. I'm glad to see it evolving. It's nice to know so many here on MN have shared fond memories.

@Magenta82 oh, and good you for all your badges! I only had a few and remember some anxiety hoping I'd pass! 😀

Mine was:

'I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God, to serve the Queen and help other people and to keep the brownie guide law.'

That was circa 1976. I wish I had been the type of child to give it a single bit of thought, but I just reeled it off😀 I am now an atheist and very much anti monarchy. I didn't like the brownies. My mum made me go after I refused to go back to the Girls' Brigade (all that marching up and down ...). Brownies was definitely the lesser of two evils. My friends loved it though and seemed to get much more out of it than I ever did. Horses for courses and all that!

Why does she have to have a 'very good reason'? She's only just 8, maybe she just feels uncomfortable about it. The pledge is weird and Op's dd seems like a rather clever girl to not want to comply with such a nonsense.

In my day it was promising to do your duty to god serve the queen and help other people. I think not! I do help other people sometimes but the first two?!

I still remember my Brownie promise, made back in the Dark Ages.

‘I promise to do my best, to do my duty to God and the Queen, to help other people every day, especially those at home.’

I wonder what they say now??

I didn’t last long at Brownies - I hated the blasted knitting we had to do, was crap at it.
I love knitting now!

Oh for the days when 8 year olds would not even think to question this. I really worry that children are fed far too much information and given far too many choices these days. Know I will be flamed, but what will these children be like at 15/16 ? They shouldnt be troubled with all this when they are so young.

No. They will not get a promise badge if they don't make their promise. They can have all the other badges but the promise badge is, as the name suggests, for girls who have made their promise.

What country was that? Don't recognise it as as UK promise in any of it's incarnations.

How can it be a bad thing for a young girl to listen to her feelings and thoughts and not do all thing unquestioningly? If she can be a Brownie without doing the promise, why should she be forced to do this promise? Maybe she likes the activities and the social aspect without having to deliver this obscure declaration? Maybe she needs time to think on it. If you really think about it no 8 year old can really make such a promise as their brains are not developed and they can't really consent to it, which make it all rather meaningless if not outright weird.

Isn't it just a rebranding exercise? I don't think the names are changing.

70s. I promise that I will do my best, do my duty to God, serve the Queen, help other people and keep the Brownie Guide law

Seems strange to want to do brownies but not do the promise, but if they are OK with it, then I wouldn't worry.

No name changes (although a few years ago Senior Section changed its name back to Rangers). Programme and promise also isn't changing.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/how-were-being-our-best/updates-for-our-members/a-new-way-to-tell-our-story/

What’s not changing?

The bones of guiding is what makes it so special, so lots won’t change.

The programme will remain the same and our mission, vision and values.

Our Promise will be the same, along with the songs you sing in meetings.

Uniform isn’t changing right now. That’ll happen in 2026, and there’ll be a changeover period for uniform too.

Our names aren’t changing. We’re still Girlguiding and our sections are Rainbows, Brownies, Guides and Rangers. We’ll still have a Girlguiding logo and a trefoil, but there’ll be updates to how these look.