So what is the answer to the migrant crisis?

[fucketyfuckwit]

Just had a conversation with DH about the migrant crisis.

DH is more left wing than me (I'm more in the middle). I asked him to explain what he thinks about the migrant crisis that is in the news (as in people coming over in dinghies into Kent).

He said that we should support them as they often bring us skills and will eventually work and pay taxes.

I get that historically immigration had resulted in this but can't help but think that firstly, this country is on its knees and can't cope having to support these people and also that the I don't believe all these people have skills to offer us.

I know we lost a large number of farm workers etc through Brexit,

Without jumping on me and calling me a bigot etc can anyone please help me explain why we shouldn't just be sending them straight back?

Please just help me to understand.

My friend records their arrival -

I don’t think the public realise the scale of it!

facebook.com/100035399160971/

I know I wouldn't put my children into a flimsy dinghy' to leave a safe country, just because we didn't speak the language of the safe country we were leaving !!

Do you not believe it is a crisis?

The solution is safe routes for claiming asylum and faster processing. Check out this graph:

https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1590003330910392320?s=61&t=czlV8fn9cR5F8B7j-AoyVA

What do you consider to be appropriate help?

Firstly, a legal route into the country for all to make the gangs who traffick people pointless and they can come safely if they need to.
Secondly, an efficient process and organisation who can manage claims swiftly so that people who are entitled to be here can work and make a life for themselves and contribute to the economy.

We should look after them because they are human beings.

I think other countries in Europe, including Germany, France and Spain, actually accept more refugees than the UK. Many people choose to come here because they already speak the language or have family living here.

We weren't alive when this happened.......what is the relevance?? Actions have consequences even if the individual's who fucked up are long gone. By the mantra of we weren't alive should we all stop doing something about climate change as we won't be alive by the time the planet's irreversibly fucked.

What do you consider to be appropriate help?

Take the ££££ saved from no longer spending on hotels or detention facilities and use it to support successful asylum claimants in getting work. Where I am there are hundreds and hundreds of vacancies for work in hospitality, retail and care. There is no job shortage in the UK, so the more vacancies filled (and consequent taxes paid) the better.

The Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany that stopped in the first available country (e.g. Anne Frank's family going to the Netherlands) ended up in the concentration camps.

Plus, many people trying to reach the UK do so because of our empire, which brought us huge amounts of money. The language, culture, legal system etc are familiar because we imposed them for our benefit. Complaining about people wanting to come to a place that we presented as the home of security and opportunity is very hypocritical.

Then, we need immigrants. Skilled (and asylum seekers are far more likely to be educated and skilled than citizens, otherwise they would not find ways to leave/be stuck in refugee camps) doctors, teachers, business managers etc

And we need unskilled people to train as care workers and fruit pickers.

Again - why do you think there is a crisis of immigrants?

A crisis of government failing to process, yes. That's democracy, where demonising immigrants gets votes. Sadly.

You might be surprised to learn that the nhs is one of the worst health services in Europe, our welfare benefits are no better. The homelessness is due to lack of expenditure and investment of housing needs, our law and order is in dire straits due to lack of investment, our care sector is in awful condition because there is no staff etc etc. All of these issues are down to mismanagement over 12 years by this * government. Nothing to do with asylums seekers.

The reason asylum is sought in the UK is more to do with they can speak English/have family or friends already here.

Plus, many people trying to reach the UK do so because of our empire, which brought us huge amounts of money. The language, culture, legal system etc are familiar because we imposed them for our benefit.

Thank you for putting this so eloquently @Sigma33 .

The crisis comes from these people not being processed quickly enough and having to live in prison like conditions. The amount of money being spent to support them whilst it takes months and months, if not years to process them through the system.

@Sigma33 are you saying that modern day Europe is such a risk that migrants there may end up in concentration camps. Bit of a reach. Also many of the migrants at present are coming from Albania, not really a problem of empire is it? And do you expect Spain to house migrants due to the ubiquity of the Spanish language.

We have a country in fiscal trouble, we are not in a position to be spending lots of money supporting economic migrants that don’t fancy claiming asylum in any of the very safe countries they have passed through to get here.
The claim that refugees and migrants are more skilled then UK citizens is also a bit of a stretch. I’d they are that skilled then they could apply for a visa.
As for training, we have a million people on out of work benefits in the UK that could be trained to pick fruit.

Or , they have more land mass than us , have you got a graph for that please ? I'm genuinely interested
And many , equally haven't got family living here or speak English . Let's try and help genuine refugees please, this is not it .
I'm so sorry but I'm fed up with what we are being fed

It's not as simple as sending refugee doctors etc in to man our hospitals though, is it? Even medics who are recruited from overseas require proof of fluency in English, equivalent qualifications and identity checks before they can work in the NHS...these would need to be done for refugee medics too, and it's almost impossible if they don't have their documents. The same for hospitality: employees need food hygiene training, a reasonable grasp of English. Carers: the equivalent of a DBS check, good communication skills, manual handling training, personal care training.

I can't think of many jobs apart from in agriculture that would be suitable for refugees without lengthy checks of ID, qualifications and language skills.

Yes, well said

Yes, this. We are, as a country, struggling. They are passing by other countries that are perfectly safe in order to get to us. We can’t sustain it much longer.

No, the numbers are relatively small, and prioritise those who are best suited to contribute to the UK. There should be better routes to resettlement in the UK, which would undercut people traffickers

@NewYorkLassie those that are genuinely fleeing harrowing,places.
Get the help they need.
Those that are here for other reasons get a one way ticket home.

My figures are about a decade out of date because I no longer work in the sector. However, it cost about 10% to qualify an overseas doctor to learn English and the up to date medical procedures here compared to training an doctor from A-level.

Similar to have a qualified, experienced teacher from overseas to develop familiarity with the curriculum and get references by working as a TA for a couple of years here.

Instead we focus on punishing those who we taught in imperial times to see the UK as a beacon of fairness and safety

@Sigma33 by relatively small what do you mean? I would say 40,000 people this year alone isn’t a small number. It’s the size of a small town. These people do not have identity documents. We can not do checks on them and many disappear into the black ecconomy.

Hi @Olderkids - Many more do settle elsewhere, UK is way way down the list of countries accepting asylum seekers (in proportion to our population). There are many reasons some choose to come here - family, language (English was very successfully "exported" during colonial era).
There is NO legal obligation to stop in the "first safe country" - otherwise countries (often poor and war-torn themselves) would disproportionately bear the brunt.

The current "crisis" is partly due to lack of systems and "routes" for processing prior to arrival, a deliberate choice by our government. It's also made worse by the UK (as part of Brexit) withdrawing form the Dublin agreement which DID legally allow migrants to be returned to France (or other EU countries).
Finally, it is actually in the interest of the Tory government because it riles up the more right wing, creates a feeling of an enemy, and distracts people from the bigger questions of why our health and education systems, housing etc are woefully underfunded. (And the immigration service, see Yvette Cooper's comments today in parliament)
Migration is not illegal, seeking asylum is not illegal.
You sound angry and disappointed with many services but it's not "the immigrants" you should be angry at. The UK is a wealthy country,

Again, from about 10 years ago, but no reason to believe it has changed, asylum seekers were 60% more likely than UK citizens to have a professional qualification, own a business or have a degree.

Education is the biggest reason why people aspire to and reach the UK