How the upper middle class live

[LisaJool]

Apologies for yet another class thread but I find this fascinating. Off the back of a thread I started watching a TV series about British aristos and their stately homes. This lead to other YouTube videos and a podcast.
Some observations I made:

1. The women all have great bone structure with the infamous MN UMC swooshy hair.

1. A lot of "sleepless nights" and hand wringing about how they can maintain their homes, which they are "custodians" of. Many have had to do tours/homemade jams/souvenirs to try to bring in extra money. But, their dc go to private schools - surely the first thing you'd do is remove them from that to save money or get rid of the ponies?

1. Re decor, lots of chintz like you'd expect in lovely formal rooms but their kitchens look like something Kim and Aggie need to tackle. Clutter covering all available workspace, books, riding gear, pet bowls etc, lots of knick knacks. Someone on another thread stated that the 'clutter free' movement is a class thing, with it being a LMC to working class thing. Not sure if this is true but interesting all the same.

I don't know anyone who is truly UMC as in old money or landed gentry types. For those who are acquainted, what are they like and how do they live?

Apparently not Spag Bol with carrots in it!

Sacrilege! Carrots cut the sharpness, just purée them, no one would be any the wiser.

@LisaJool Stuffed pheasant.

@Taradiddled No? perhaps they hadn't read the memo. Twice. Same band from Mustique. Carries well. And 3/4 years later, at a wedding too. Obsessed.

@vera99 Sorry didn't watch, can't do the accent, non Brit, no hope.

You can't have been yelled at, according to lots on this thread who really know about this stuff, the aristos are lovely people with lovely manners, you must be lying low life or maybe they weren't real aristos, maybe they had some dirty lower class blood mixed in there somewhere.

Oh sorry - I just re-read my post, and I was being completely unclear. My point was the RR Evoques, Waitrose, etc are the choices of the aspirational middle/upper middles (the Kate Middleton types) - not upper. Upper is Lidl, shepherds pie, dogs at the table, boarding school, ancient plumbing etc.

In my MIL's families case there are spiralling debts, addictions and severe mental health issues, which I assume is partly due to generations of inbreeding. When we desperately need to de-stigmatised mental health your 'inbreeding' comment is unbelievably offensive, and highlights how much ignorance is still out there when it comes to this area of health.

Class is a funny thing. You are born into it; you can't buy your way into it, and I don't think you can 'fall' out of it either, maybe over generations you can? (You can marry up or down which then begs the question which class do the next generation go into?) Perhaps overtime we'll finally be able to get rid of the whole concept of a class system...but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

"...we desperately need to de-stigmatised mental health your 'inbreeding' comment is unbelievably offensive,..."
Yes to this.

People that you consider above you in class: sneer.
People that you consider below you in class: patronise.

I actually think you can fall out of it within a couple of generations. My in-laws were county set. Large country house, servants and boarding school for their children from eight onwards. MIL didn’t work and didn’t prioritise her daughters’ education with careers in mind.

Their grandchildren are mainly solid middle-middle class: half of them state-school educated. The girls all work. Every single one of them has either got a degree or gone into some career involving intense training and qualifications.

Upper is Lidl, shepherds pie, dogs at the table, boarding school, ancient plumbing etc.

It really isn’t.

I would agree you can fall out of it. My great grandparents were from this set with a huge country estate in the Cotwolds. 6 children. The estate was sold and the money was divided upon their deaths - maybe they decided not to pass to the elder son because he was a missionary!

My grandparents were more MU class, the children were boarding school educated but there was not a huge amount of money.

My father was a teacher and our childhoods were typically MC, although we were privately educated at a time it was much cheaper!

My children and my siblings children are state school educated. We are all home owners but not high earners. So the family has dropped from UC to MC in 2 generations. (Not that I mind, I do not hanker to be part of the UC set!)

I do think if England abolished the class system a lot of people would have a nervous breakdown..

@VladmirsPoutine you can strive for more fairness but it's not in human nature to have a society without a class system somehow emerging. And how can you abolish something that is not written in law?
But yes, it's a huge part of the Brits' psyche. I love the little games when you meet someone for the first time.

And on this thread.

I think you’re absolutely right. Though why they feel this way is considerably more mysterious.

I’m fascinated by the popularity of Downton Abbey, which does a lot of ideological work on making social class look terribly palatable by depicting the aristocrats as devoted to their sycophantic-but-also-a-bit-feisty servants, and by dramatising what Julian Fellowes clearly thinks is the great injustice of his life (aristo women not able to inherit titles — his wife, Emma Kitchener, wasn’t able to inherit an earldom).

@wheresmybike Abolished was probably the wrong word. But the Brits are obsessed with it. I on the other hand couldn't give shiny shit.

I know one person from such a family. Met him at college. Will inherit a millstone house that is practically uninhabitable. Very posh accent, top education. Surprisingly cash poor. A lot of family expectations on him. Nice guy if a bit clueless about some things.

It really is, in my world. But there will obviously be exceptions.

And mine. Rural though, which is the defining factor.

I don't know why people get so defensive about class. I find it fascinating. I did anthropology at university and find class cultural indicators and characteristic behaviour patterns as intriguing as the cultural norms and rituals of the Dinka or Sami. I always wish I could take field notes at those dinner parties.

If actual aristocrats aren't enough to be considered upper class, who on earth is?

Yes - rural here too.

I also find it fascinating. I love the idea of field notes at dinner parties. 😬

But yes, it's a huge part of the Brits' psyche. I love the little games when you meet someone for the first time

I had no idea that everyone was playing little games to work out what class people are. How much money they have, yeah. Largely based on what car you drive and how big your house is.

Anyway unlike most MNers I don't think class is a thing. Income/wealth is a thing. And you'll be judged on your wealth/income in every country, not just England or the UK.

I had a friend like this too. Really lovely man, but spare not heir and pretty grateful for it as it meant he got to have a profession whereas his brother had to inherit the counrty pile, which was magnificent with a priest hole and secret passageways and lots of carved oak pannelling an ddusty chandeliers. But falling down and a fortune to maintain let alone update.

I've come to the conclusion that the UC "I've got no money" is very different from most people saying it. The family I follow are really getting on my wick, they're grifting for money "to keep heritage alive" and then buying holiday homes and getting interior designers to do them up. For their benefit obviously. Clearly not on the bones of their backsides.

These families became part of the aristocracy originally by grifting, scheming and thieving nothing new there! People don't become filthy rich in an era of feudalism by being altruistic and peaceful. 😂

Check out mrsaliceinherpalace Alice Naylor Leyland on insta... Also yohanna hanbury, polo wife of the very handsome Charlie Hanbury.. I also find them fascinating! All the uc children have blonde hair & blue eyes regardless of the parents colouring!