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Ukraine Invasion: Part 34

988 replies

MagicFox · 23/10/2022 21:29

Welcome all 🇺🇦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
80
Mb76 · 31/10/2022 19:20

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 31/10/2022 19:04

Mb76, the W&P thread is indeed still going strong, only a small band of us hanging on in there and not long to go now!
It seems strange to be reading W&P and sympathising with the Russian's against Napoleonic forces then coming to this thread and hoping the Russian's fail miserably.

I hope I can come back to it one day. I just can’t do it right now, I think Tolstoy would be turning in his grave if he could see what has become of Russia.

Perhaps I will pop in on the W&P thread once I’m back home to upload more photos of the pictures in my book for you all.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 31/10/2022 19:52

That would be great Mb76 🤗

MissConductUS · 31/10/2022 19:56

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 31/10/2022 18:58

Not the Turkey/UN escorted grain convoy I hasten to add but I've seen a few reports of this:

BREAKING: Russia has reportedly fired at a civilian barge transporting grain near Ochakiv

https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1587122125718142976?s=61&t=P23XMKY9SiIZNUM5YGOvFA

According to this, the tugboat was in port when it happened.

censor.net/en/news/3377359/russian_military_shelled_port_infrastructure_in_ochakiv_direction_there_are_dead_oc_south

MMBaranova · 31/10/2022 22:11

I'm not too sure what I did earlier today when I fell into the pro-Russian French language threads online. An example of so much effort being put into so much propaganda. It is often the same text and images being pumped out from different accounts. If you are a recipient you can't not see the clones.

Anyway, there was also this:

31st October 2022 , Moscow , Russia

Briefing of the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense Major General Igor Konashenkov:

"The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have continued launching strikes by high-precision long-range air- and sea-based armament at the military control and energy systems of Ukraine. The goals of the attacks have been reached. All the assigned targets have been destroyed..."

[goes on for 7 more paragraphs detailing Ukrainian losses and Russian successes with no mention of losses on their side.]

Energy systems we know about. How much the Russians are degrading military control systems I have no idea, but those are the stated aims according to the briefer Konashenkov, the guy in the attached image. It is almost always him doing these briefings with a graphic behind him.

Unlike Wagner, this briefing does not claim any advances. It's all repulsing Ukrainian advances, shooting down missiles, destroying ammunition depots and so on and is very numerical, name dropping locations (not many of which are in the Kherson region).

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
MMBaranova · 31/10/2022 22:22

>I think Tolstoy would be turning in his grave if he could see what has become of Russia.

He might be bemused at what his family is up to. There are a lot of them and many are part of a Tolstoy diaspora. Nikolai Tolstoy[-Miloslavsky] is supposedly family head and is in his later 80s and was a UKIP candidate. Pyotr Tolstoy is in his 50s and is Duma Deputy Chairman and is sanctioned.

www.opensanctions.org/entities/Q4459965/

MMBaranova · 31/10/2022 22:41

This sort of source is different in some ways to Konashenkov's briefings that are high on numbers, holding out against Ukrainian attacks and destruction. Here we have a lead once again on hitting power systems. The Russians are really headlining this.

In the morning, the Russian Armed Forces carried out massive missile strikes on Ukraine's critical infrastructure. Russian troops hit the substations and outdoor switchgear of Kaniv, Kremenchug, Pridneprovskaya, Dneprovskaya, Kievskaya and Dniester hydroelectric power stations, as well as the substation Zalyutino in Kharkov.

The attack led to large-scale emergency power outages throughout the country and an even greater decrease in the stability of the unified Ukrainian energy system.

[16, sometimes short, paragraphs follow.]

Then, if you drop it into a page google translate, you will see that it isn't number heavy and outlines numerous claimed little victories and advances.

glasnarod.ru/specoperaciya/hronika-specialnoj-voennoj-operacii-za-31-oktyabrya-2022-goda/

Ijsbear · 31/10/2022 22:55

PEOPLE’S DEFENDER: The German-provided
IRIS-T air defense system proved its worth today-- with reports of a localized 100% interception rate, knocking out incoming RU cruise missiles. This air defense asset is critical for the defense of UKR cities.

Not sure how many went to Ukraine but managing to knock out 100% sounds amazing.

MissConductUS · 31/10/2022 23:22

I'm sure IRIS-T is an excellent air defense system, but to be fair, cruise missiles are fairly easy targets. They fly at subsonic speeds, in a straight line, and at fairly low altitudes. Lots have been shot down with shoulder-fired MANPADS. Intercepting ballistic missiles is much harder.

In a related bit of news, Bayraktar is adding air to air missiles to the TB2 drones Ukraine already operates.

Turkish drone company Baykar to develop air-to-air missiles to counter kamikaze drone attacks in Ukraine

notimagain · 31/10/2022 23:31

Ijsbear · 31/10/2022 22:55

PEOPLE’S DEFENDER: The German-provided
IRIS-T air defense system proved its worth today-- with reports of a localized 100% interception rate, knocking out incoming RU cruise missiles. This air defense asset is critical for the defense of UKR cities.

Not sure how many went to Ukraine but managing to knock out 100% sounds amazing.

TBH It's a bit of a meaningless statistic without more info and what's meant by "localized"..

For example if one launcher or battery (? one locality) hit the single missile that entered it's engagement zone during todays events then that's a 100% kill rate...but TBH that's not that amazing or exceptional.

If OTOH one launcher or battery had to cope with say 10 or 20 missiles today and killed every one then that's also a 100% kill rate..but that is much more impressive.

That said however it's being reported it sounds like a good thing.

Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 08:01

ISW Key Takeaways

Russian forces launched another massive wave of strikes against critical Ukrainian infrastructure, further damaging the power grid and leaving much of Kyiv without water.

Russian officials again changed their minds about the risk of Ukrainian forces destroying the Kakhovka dam, ordering evacuations of areas that could be flooded. There is no scenario in which Ukraine would benefit from destroying the dam, and this rhetoric is likely meant to speed evacuations and provide informational cover for Russian withdrawals from the west bank.

Russian forces are continuing to withdraw from the west bank of the Dnipro River even as they set conditions to fight for positions around Kherson City.

Wagner Private Military Company financier Evgeniy Prigozhin sought to bring charges against the St. Petersburg mayor for corruption and announced the imminent opening of the PMC Wagner Center in St. Petersburg. Prigozhin also attacked “oligarchs” and “elites” for living in comfort and preventing the full mobilization of Russia.

Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian troops conducted counter-offensive operations in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and along the Svatove-Kreminna line on October 30 and 31.

Russian forces continued defensive operations and Russian sources reported that Ukrainian forces continued counter-offensive operations in Kherson Oblast on October 30 and 31.

The Ukrainian interdiction campaign is reportedly damaging Russian forces exfiltrating across the Dnipro River.

Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut on October 30 and 31.

Russian sources claimed that Russian troops made incremental gains in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area on October 30 and 31, but ISW cannot verify these claims.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is likely attempting to prevent draft dodging by trying to deceive the Russian population into believing that autumn conscripts will not be sent to fight in Ukraine.

The MoD also announced the end of partial mobilization on October 31, executing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s order to end mobilization by the end of October

Local Russian governments remain responsible for even basic provisions to mobilized personnel, demonstrating the inefficiency of crowdfunding efforts and uncoordinated supply lines to support a modern military.

Russian occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast announced that they would allow the use of Ukrainian hryvnias alongside Russian rubles, demonstrating the failure of their monthslong rubleization efforts in Kherson.

Russian officials continue to create poor conditions in occupied parts of Kherson Oblast, likely to drive local inhabitants to evacuate.

[also a lot on Prigozhin, the head of Wagner, who is becoming a strong political force. Unless reined in soon I think he's possibly a successor to Putin, who is starting imo to look increasingly weak; he has been allowing extensive criticism of the MoD and his own people, and if he can't stop that, well, the lions are starting to run the circus instead of the ringmaster]

+++

Zelenskyy: Today our Air Forces and everyone involved in protecting the skies did a great job. Most of the objects that the terrorists identified as targets were saved. This morning alone, the terrorists used 55 cruise missiles for a massive strike, 45 of which were shot down.

+++

⚡️ Russian proxies in Crimea announce 'nationalization' of property owned by anyone 'associated with Kyiv.'

⚡️ DTEK says its running out of equipment for power grid repair.
DTEK Executive Director Dmytro Sakharuk said the Ukrainian energy giant has depleted its stock of stored equipment following the two series of attacks after Oct. 10.

⚡️ Digital Transformation Ministry: Mobile service in Kyiv may be disrupted due to power grid damage

Ukraine’s military: Russia fires at civilian tugboats in Mykolaiv Oblast, killing 2 people.
Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported on Oct. 31 that Russian forces hit two civilian tug boats transporting grain near Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast.

Ukraine’s top oligarch Akhmetov loses half his assets to Russia’s invasion (kyivindependent.com/business/ukraines-top-oligarch-akhmetov-loses-half-his-assets-to-russias-invasion)

⚡️ Governor: Ukraine liberates 9 settlements in Luhansk Oblast.

⚡️ Russian Defense Ministry: Russia can not guarantee grain corridor safety.

⚡️ Putin: Oct. 31 mass attacks on Ukraine are revenge for Crimea drone attack.
Russian President Vladimir Putin said the Oct. 31 mass strikes on Ukraine were a partial response to an alleged Ukrainian drone attack on Moscow’s Black Sea Fleet’s ships in occupied Sevastopol.

⚡️ Interior Minister: Russia fires around 60,000 rounds of ammunition daily.
Interior Minister Denys Monastyrskyi said on Oct. 31 that Ukraine’s Armed Forces use around 6,500–7,000 rounds, approximately 10 times less than Russia. [This is a huge disparity. Might any military person be able to give their thoughts, beyond the obvious that Ru is profligate and Ukr has to be more careful? @notimagain @MissConductUS ]

⚡️ IAEA inspectors inspect 2 Ukrainian nuclear facilities amid Russia’s ‘dirty bomb’ claims.

⚡️ Ukraine downs 2 Russian attack helicopters in Kherson Oblast.

650 more people gone. And no less than 4 helicopters and 1 plane! I do wonder if the numbers are inaccurate but then at the beginning of the war Ukraine claimed far less losses, so perhaps they are.

There have been reports of heavy losses on both sides around Bakhmut.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 08:05

forgot - look at the number of Cruise missiles downed :o

notimagain · 01/11/2022 08:18

Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 08:05

forgot - look at the number of Cruise missiles downed :o

Seen....the Air Defence system certainly seems to be improving, possibly a combination of better "kit" and possibly the Russians using older stock..

I hope didn't sound overly picky with the IRIS-T numbers last night but there's not been a missile system in the world that has had what's known as a Kill Probability (pK) of 100%, and I'm sensing from some Twitter sources there's a bit of a bromance with regard to IRIS-T...

Generically in the air defence line of work some days you get lucky and it's just one shot, other days you need more than one shot (sometimes you fire more than one anyway if time is short) so it's hard to analyse the stats..

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 01/11/2022 08:37

‘The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is likely attempting to prevent draft dodging by trying to deceive the Russian population into believing that autumn conscripts will not be sent to fight in Ukraine.‘

Why would the population still believe anything they said at this stage though?

notimagain · 01/11/2022 08:43

Sorry, had to break off..

"Generically in the air defence line of work some days you get lucky and it's just one shot, other days you need more than one shot (sometimes you fire more than one anyway if time is short) so it's hard to analyse the stats.."

For example if you fire two and you first round hits is the system 100% effective or 50% effective?

There was some controversial use of stats with regard to the Patriot system at one point, where as I recall in one theatre they were sometimes firing as standard as many as four rounds in salvo against incomings they simply had to hit, usually killing the targets. Nevertheless some critics used the data to claim the system was only 25% effective or worse (@MissConductUS may remember the details).

In conclusion I'm always a bit beware the sales pitch/spin when it comes to this stuff, but that doesn''t avoid the fact I'm sure IRIS-T and other systems are very welcome in Ukraine and doing a good job.

Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 08:43

@notimagain Ru must be running low on Cruise missiles? there have been reports of them using older and older stuff, would that apply to Cruises too?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel I think that might be answered by RTB's post on the truth, belief in govt and powerlessness. At this point if people simply have their heads down and feel zero ability to affect anything, maybe they are simply hoping that the draft will not scoop them up. The Kremlin puts out this shit in order to keep the sense of hopelessness up.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 01/11/2022 10:17

Day 250, October 31st. Summary of Arestovych and Feygin daily broadcast
Posted on 01 November 2022

🔥 Battlefield update:
Draftees arriving in large quantities (about 100k at the moment) are starting to have effect on front. Front-line is now stabilized (partially due to 🇺🇦 having shortage of weapons). Freed regular units are used on counter-attacks near Bakhmut, New York (for 8th month), Donetsk airport, Marinka, Novomykhailivka and Vuhledar. 🇺🇦 managed to stabilize situation, waiting for tomorrow to see any changes.
Due to political pressure, 🇷🇺 command used available reserves immediately, without any concentration and planning.

🔥 Bakhmut:
🇷🇺 attacking 8 infantry waves before lunch, and 8 waves after lunch. However front line is moving away from Bakhmut.

🔥 Kherson:
Heavy fuss, battles for crossroads, advances for 100-200 meters there and back. 🇺🇦 has artillery superiority, and using it to hit everywhere – warehouses, MLRS locations, ammo depots, command posts, etc.

🔥 Missile attacks:
🇷🇺 launched over 50 missiles, 44 intercepted. 🇷🇺 aiming for electric and hydro infrastructure, 18 objects damaged today (some objects located nearby, multiple hits by missile). Today was attempt to oversaturate 🇺🇦 air-defenses, but that didn’t work, 🇺🇦 is gaining experience with every attempt. IRIS-T efficiency is currently 100% in 🇺🇦
Putin claims, attacks are response for Sevastopol. There are no details yet of 🇷🇺 losses in Sevastopol, however from the amount of response it seems, those were painful.

🔥 Grain deal:
🇷🇺 announced canceling grain deal, but 🇺🇦 doesn’t have direct deal with 🇷🇺. 🇹🇷 Turkey as guarantor of deal, decided to honor it’s part and provide protection, otherwise it wouldn’t be treated as reliable guarantor. 🇹🇷 navy is 5 times more powerful than 🇷🇺 Black sea fleet. 🇺🇳 U.N. also called all nations to provide protection of grain ships. It’s near impossible to stop grain deal now.

🔥 Negotiations:
🇺🇦 won’t be negotiating with Putin. Negotiations are only possible with next leader of 🇷🇺, with the following conditions: removal of troops, extradition of war criminals, payment of compensations, etc

🔥 Mobilization:
Putin announced mobilization being completed, but not yet legally. This is attempt to calm population. A battalion of mobilized from 423rd Motor Rifle Regiment left their positions near Svatove, and were found 15km beyond Svatove.

🔥 U.N. vote
🇺🇦 voted YES on 🇮🇱 Israel renouncing it’s nuclear weapons [ 🇮🇱 does not admit or deny having nuclear weapons, but is believed to have them since 1960s], thus making this vote anti-Israel. This vote is believed to be negligence and historical inertia, as this vote happens every year, and is purely formal. This is big mistake, and will negatively influence cooperation with 🇮🇱.

🔥 Belarus:
Current 🇷🇺 forces don’t exceed 10k, which is not enough to do attack anywhere. For attack 🇷🇺 would need 30-35k troops, preparations would take at least 2 months, which is 1/4th of total war duration. 🇺🇦 is not sitting ducks either, it’s training, setting up defenses, mining bridges.

🔥 Pskov airfield:
Four Ka-52 helicopters burned in Pskov district airfield [located near 🇪🇪 Estonia and 🇱🇻 Latvia border ].

🔥 G20 summit:
Putin worried about getting excluded from international community, probably won’t attend personally. 🇺🇦 position is that aggressor and terrorist country should be excluded from everything, including international tennis organizations.

🔥 Moldova:
One of missiles fell in territory of 🇲🇩 Moldova. 🇲🇩 military is incapable of solving defensive or offensive objectives, they can only rely on their partners. In order to get assistance, they must ask for it. 🇺🇦 is their friend, respecting their integrity and sovereignty, and if they ask – they can receive assistance.

MissConductUS · 01/11/2022 10:37

@notimagain, I do recall the controversy with the Patriot missiles when they were used in Iraq, primarily against Scud missiles. The Patriots would sometimes damage the Scud or push it off course without disabling the warhead. The Patriot crews would often fire up to four rounds to try to ensure a warhead kill. Since this was all quite some years ago, I'm sure Raytheon has improved them.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 01/11/2022 10:55

From Ijsbear's takeaways:

Wagner Private Military Company financier Evgeniy Prigozhin sought to bring charges against the St. Petersburg mayor for corruption and announced the imminent opening of the PMC Wagner Center in St. Petersburg. Prigozhin also attacked “oligarchs” and “elites” for living in comfort and preventing the full mobilization of Russia.

Prigozhin getting very vocal here! I doubt Putin wants the populace to be reminded of 'elites living in comfort' when he's the richest man in Russia with a $1.3 billion palace on the Black Sea.
If, as Ijsbear said, Prigozhin is positioning himself as a successor to Putin (God forbid) he should stay away from high windows. Or preferably not.

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2022 12:17

Today Russia has announced the 'completion of their partial mobilisation'. So what happens next is going to get interesting, especially when you start to dig down into the rates of personnel losses.

The Russian Troop losses for the last week in particular look like they are something else - especially Saturday, if the Ukrainians are to be believed...

I've just gone through twitter feed of the Ukrainian General Staff to look at the casualty figures they've put out. The furthest I can go back on the account is 23rd September.

Today +650
31 Oct +620
30 Oct +950
29 Oct +550 (Sevastopol attack)
28 Oct +480
27 Oct +320
26 Oct +480
25 Oct +480
24 Oct +470
23 Oct +400
22 Oct (no figure given on AT GeneralStaffUA)
21 Oct + 100
20 Oct +370
19 Oct +430 (civilian 'evacuation' from Kherson announced by Russia)
18 Oct +530
17 Oct +320
16 Oct +300
15 Oct +400
14 Oct +500
13 Oct (no figure given on AT GeneralStaffUA)
12 Oct +270
11 Oct +240
10 Oct +370
9 Oct +440
8 Oct +380 (Kerch Bridge Bombing)
7 Oct +350
6 Oct +330
5 Oct +200
4 Oct +370
3 Oct +320
2 Oct +500
1 Oct +530 (Lyman liberation)
30 Sep +500
29 Sep +430
28 Sep +400
27 Sep +550
26 Sep +500
25 Sep +400
24 Sep +240

I've also found a graph of reported Russian dead (from Ukrainian official sources) right back to the start of the war.

There is a marked uptick in Russian Deaths from about 21 August. That surprised me as its slightly earlier than I'd expected, however it probably does make sense: the Ukrainians launched their Kharkiv Offensive on 6 September, so a couple of weeks of bombardment is probably what you'd expect.

For context some key moments:
19 July The Antonovsky bridge hit.
27 July The Antonovsky bridge closed to civilians after being hit
31 July Russia accused Ukraine of a drone strike on the HQ of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol, injuring five and cancelling Navy Day celebrations.
9 August 12 explosions at the Russian Saky military airbase in Novofedorivka, Crimea.
10 August President Zelenskyy said that "this Russian war...began with Crimea and must end with Crimea - with its liberation". Previously he had said that he would accept peace with Russia if they fell back to their 24 February positions
15 August - Ukraine claimed to have struck a base being used as HQ for the Wagner Group with a HIMARS rocket.
16 August - Explosions reported at an arms depot at Maiske, in northern Crimea. The Russian Defence Ministry blamed the blast on "sabotage". According to a Ukrainian official, the explosions were carried out by an elite Ukrainian military unit
20 August - Russia claimed Ukraine had carried out a drone attack on the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Russian-occupied Crimea.
A suspected car IED killed Darya Dugina, a daughter of Alexander Dugin.
26 August Ukrainian forces struck the hotel being used as a barracks and killed 200 paratroopers in Luhansk
29 August Ukraine reportedly launched a counteroffensive in the south.
10 September Kupiansk and Izium liberated
21 September Partial Russian mobilisation announced
23 September Russian 'referedums' in Kherson, Luhansk, Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia

At the moment we are in what is being termed the third phase of the war. Arguably I think we are about to tip into a new stage.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 34
Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 12:22

What new stage do yiu think it will be, RTB? Once we reach late Nivenber and freezing season it could get more active again?

Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 12:36

Germany wants to send more anti-aircraft shells to Ukraine but Swizterland is refusing to gi them permission to re-export them

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 01/11/2022 12:53

Ref Russia running low on missiles there's been a lot on Twitter about them purchasing Iranian misiles:

Iran plans to send ballistic missiles, more drones to Russia - western officials

Iran's first deployment of precision guided missiles can give Russia a "substantial boost" on the battlefield and can take place before end of 2022, CNN reported

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/status/1587425064189923329?s=61&t=q6AwEE1zHMbkOAOpuQwGDQ

MissConductUS · 01/11/2022 13:07

Part of my daily news consumption is the Economist's daily The Intelligence podcast. They cover three stories in each drop. Todays had a Russian political analyst discussing how the war has weakened Putin and how further defeats on the battlefield could tip him into an untenable position. His bargain with the elites and middle-class has always been that he gets essentially unlimited power and they get stability, and their everyday lives don't get negatively impacted. That bargain has clearly been broken, especially since mobilization. The pod is well worth a listen, and they cover the war frequently.

The Intelligence from The Economist

blueshoes · 01/11/2022 13:17

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 01/11/2022 12:53

Ref Russia running low on missiles there's been a lot on Twitter about them purchasing Iranian misiles:

Iran plans to send ballistic missiles, more drones to Russia - western officials

Iran's first deployment of precision guided missiles can give Russia a "substantial boost" on the battlefield and can take place before end of 2022, CNN reported

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/status/1587425064189923329?s=61&t=q6AwEE1zHMbkOAOpuQwGDQ

Worrying development

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2022 13:18

Ijsbear · 01/11/2022 12:22

What new stage do yiu think it will be, RTB? Once we reach late Nivenber and freezing season it could get more active again?

Yes weather definitely comes into play I think.

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) is that Kherson region has stayed largely dry but is about to change. As the weather is warm its likely to stay muddy all winter meaning mobility is going to be an issue.

The Svatove / Kremmina area on the other hand has been exceptionally wet the last couple of weeks and has been a bit of a mud bath. As the cold weather sets in the ground will harden before thawing out for the spring. So movement is potentially less problematic. It sounds like they will cut off Svatove fairly soon, so what happens next could get interesting. There isn't many defensive points up to the border and if the Ukrainians do break the line, it's not clear where the Russians can stop them if they are moving forward.

If the Russians have finished their partial mobilisation then what happens if they are burning through so many men so quickly?

Having to move to full mobilisation then begs a few questions about why partial mobilisation was insufficient.

It seemed a strange statement to put out unless you were having issues domestically resisting mobilisation at all. And that mobilisation was destabilising so it can't be admitted to.

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