I think my dd is clever, school say she is really struggling. I feel like a knob.

[SewhereIam]

I have a 5 year old dd in year 1. She is my PSB, as my PFB is 13 years older and there are 6 miscarriages inbetween them, and PSB was a very poorly foetus and very poorly baby.

As a bit of background, I was a high achiever at school, went to Oxbridge, and PFB outshone me in her GCSE's and A-Levels, and is currently at a red brick university with hopes to do a masters PhD at Oxbridge, so academia means a lot to me and I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

DD2 has always had issues with her motor skills, and has had medical investigations for a suspected brain tumour and mild cerebral palsy when she was younger, but we have been very lucky and she is fine. She is incredibly quick, can outsmart me at every turn, is very self assured, loves word play and puns, and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. She has a fantastic vocabulary, a photographic memory and usually gets concepts first time (which is just infuriating 😂). I know I shouldn't say this, but out of the three of us I would say that she is mentally the quickest.

School have said that she is really behind. Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey. We have done a lot of work on fine and gross motor skills from pretty much day dot, but she is still finding it really hard. School have said she needs a lot of extra support and we need to do more at home with her, which is fine, but they also suggested that she is far below average intelligence. Apparently they see "glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate".

What can I do to help her? This isn't the dd2 I know, but maybe I have been blinded by her being my precarious child and my last baby. I feel like such an idiot, and like I have failed her terribly. Where do I start? I feel terrible.

Ok ... I suspect your child needs to use a laptop in class and have support in lessons. It sounds like they struggle getting ideas down. She might have a communication disorder. Mine struggles with verbal instructions and multi-step instructions but is always being complimented on intelligent vocabulary. ASD can get in the way of intelligence and make it difficult to cope in a classroom situation. I will however warn you that it can also conceal an average intelligence. Vocally they may seem super bright and imaginative but have few solid ideas. They may also be dyspraxic which is one of the ASD family of disorders. Work on things like shoe lace tieing, Hama beads, and catching a ball to improve motor skills. Get an EHCP soonest and apply for one yourself if the school don't feel a need.

When your child is around age 7, it would be good to arrange an educational psychologist assessment for specific learning difficulties like dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia as well as potential for learning. If you can afford to pay for an independent one it would be better than one via the school as the private report and recommendations won't be constrained by local authority or school budgets .

School told me my son was below average intelligence and lazy.

Got him tested and he was dyslexic and extremely smart. As he has got older I have realised he is also definitely ASD.

Despite the poor prediction from primary school he graduated from uni. Get your daughter tested by an Ed Psych. Good luck x

Siblings are rarely similar. Mine are like chalk and cheese. One is autistic, the other might be neuro diverse (adhd) but nothing assessed or confirmed yet and just a niggle I get.

As well as getting her used to some fine motor skill activities to strengthen her fingers and grip it might be worth letting her get used to using a keyboard to type things up as well. My autistic daughter struggled with putting things on paper at primary school despite being in the top end of the class academically. School kept her behind because she didn’t produce written evidence. We had an OT assessment that showed she has hyper mobility and they have lots of suggestions - writing slope, finger exercises, finger grips etc and then also alternative methods of recording her work such as a computer or dictaphone (or speech to text would be used now). School were a bit c**p at doing these things but since being at secondary school where they mostly use chrome books and hardly write on paper she has really excelled. She will have to do more paper based work when she starts her GCSEs and I’d still encourage writing where possible.

Ds1 has ASD. However that was diagnosed last after Developmental Coordination Disorder, low muscle tone and hyperflexibility.

All that combined meant that he struggled in school. He was allowed to use a laptop from yr 6 onwards. If DD is asked questions verbally and someone else writes them down, how does she do? I.e a scribe. Worth asking the school that.

As part of his ASD assessment the EP requested OT and SALT assessments. The LA refused to do them. Long story short.... l had private assessments completed which formed part of his EHCP.

Unfortunately if your DD does have SEN you're in for a battle to get her needs met.

On another note the various assessors are unlikely to assess for dyslexia/dyspraxia until they’re 7+ as often children develop at different rates and might just need extra time to catch up. After this you can push for assessments. Educational psychologists are hard to come by though as there is such a shortage. Different schools have different arrangements with how this service is funded by the LA. Some areas get so many hours to use a year so prioritise children, other areas have it all free to access via the school. If you’ve already had early assessments for other things you might get assessments easier. Children can be seen by an educational psychologist from any age but getting hold of one is another matter.

You mentioned lazy eye. Is it Strabismus or Amblyopia? How is it being treated?

I have this and at the time 60s, there wasn't the type of treatment there is now. Wasn't surgery. Just eye drops and eye patching which as a 4 or 5 year old I hated.

Poor depth perception, seeing double when tired, very poor vision one eye.

This would clearly affect school work especially reading words on the page and writing hand eye coordination.

I wouldn't let anyone label a 5 year old in the way a teacher has. It's very damaging to kids.

Your DD is still developing. The suggestions for gross and fine motor play is what I would focus on.

PS My mother kept a few pages of my handwriting. I had wonky letter and backwards too but by year 3 or 4, I had and still have beautiful cursive penmanship.

I haven't read the full thread, just your original post. I'm a KS1 teacher. Either you are delusional OR she has fine motor skills and the school are so hung up on that they aren't seeing what she can do. I would suggest that you ask for her to type or do voice to text for writing, and either do maths on a computer or say answers to an adult just so they can see what she is capable of. Yes, writing is important but it isn't the be all and end all, and she can still be age related or even greater depth without writing (as long as there is paperwork to backup why her fine motor skills are an issue)

Does DD have something along the line of Dyspraxia?

When I was a child I was always held back at school (primary & secondary) and but in the lowest of the special needs sets. When I hit year 9 one of my new teachers realised that I simply needed a different approach. She helped me for the year along with my grandfather and the very next year I took some of my GCSE's early. Then at college I struggled again and dropped out.
In my late 20's I worked to get into uni as a mature student. While there they realised something was amiss and tested me for dyslexia. Turns out I'm extremely dyslexic but at the same time learnt to cope over the years due to my very high IQ.
I was written off as a child. Now I'm a scientific engineer. Imagine what I could have achieved given the proper educational support.

Dont let the school pigeon hole your DD as 'struggling'. Unfortunately our education system is a one size fits all box and if you dont fit into it you must be of low IQ. You know your daughter better than they do. Push for the help and diagnosis. With the right support she will flourish!
Good luck.

Just wondering if piano or other music lessons might help woth gross motor skills. Mysic lessons are SO beneficial is so mamy ways at almost any age, but particulalry at age 5 to 6.

@DodgyLeftLeg its gross. All of it.

@PlntLady its the OP that whacked low IQ on the situation. Not the school. School is not the issue here.

If she is autistic then she works differently to NT children. My ND child is intelligent but struggles at school. His paediatrician says he is an iPhone in a android world. She will find her place with the right help and support x

Schools tend to have fixed ideas of what children should be doing at different stages, but that does not fit every child. Sometimes neat writing is just that, not so much understanding underneath. Sometimes scrappy handwriting is because the hand can’t keep pace with the ideas in the brain. Sometimes other factors apply. There is no one single approach that fits all. I really disagree with teachers labelling young children in this way. I suspect teachers are not generally taught how to deal with gifted children, and may misinterpret an intelligent child being bored as a lack of engagement, commitment or understanding.

This ^
Also, schools are very "one dimensional" on how they measure intelligence.

Oh it does here. If your child isn’t an “Oxbridge” candidate by the age of 3 they are obviously as thick as mince and their lives won’t be worth living 🙄.

On MN one never has a child that is just downright average. There always has to be a reason, and an armchair diagnosis of neurodiversity.

It’s ridiculous to imply that every ND child is actually a genius and not to worry because they will still go to bloody Oxford or Cambridge. It completely negates the struggles that the majority of ND children will face.

Not RTFT OP, but when my DD started school, she really struggled with everything and was behind in every subject. My DD has htpermobility and Dyspraxia, which both make writing difficult etc difficult. Like you I always though my DD would do really well at school as she is really clever, but due to her dyspraxia that intelligence doesn't translate into the class room. She is doing much better now (year 4) and has caught up in most areas, even excelling in reading.
It turned out that because she was struggling, she thought she was stupid, so she wasn't trying. Now she knows she isn't stupid, she keeps trying really hard.

Glad you're able to rationalise some of your expectations OP, and hope you can give her more space to develop at her own rate and be HER.

I understand the school's comments about falling 'further behind' the core class work when her fine motor skills haven't fully come together. - But this is because the YR-2 curriculum in the UK (well, Scotland diverging in a more rational direction now, I believe) is very prescriptive about what constitutes 'success' and there isn't any time allowed for going back & solidifying key skills for those who develop fine motor skills at a slower (yet still within normal developmental) range.

I have a very young in year DS and it was actually my younger child's nursery teacher who pointed out that fine motor skills are typically much later developing in boys. So yes, to keep helping him, but no - not to put undue pressure on against his peer "meeting expectation" time frame.

My biggest concern was that he was well settled, making friends, ENJOYING turning up to school every day, and practicing what he should - even if it wasn't ever going to make the display board of stories in immaculate handwriting.

Minimising his frustrations with what he couldn't do YET and encouraging persistence have been pretty key life skills to focus on throughout primary.

And as he closed the 25% age gap on some of his classmates, his physical and emotional development caught up, his reading went through a travelator acceleration period over the summer of Y2, and he clearly demonstrated how much he ENJOYED school in lively discussions.

In Y6, we did invest some time & money with a handwriting OT as the school didn't have any time or skills to help him address the issues he still had. That paid off in spades & suddenly all his fun ideas & stories actually made it onto the page, rather than getting a cursory 2 sentences as reluctant english homework.

It sounds like you're on a path to get help for specific issues your DD has, which should provide excellent specialist knowledge to help her develop. But don't lose sight of the fact that primary education isn't actually a competition... she needs to develop all of her rounded life & social skills to the best of her ability and want to turn up each day to get the most out of it! Supporting her motor development at home long after the rest of the class has moved on will be an important role for you - without adding any pressure to 'catch up' on a specific time frame. She has another 5 1/2 years to assimilate all of this core primary learning! Don't rush

OMG this sounds like my second DC ! Sadly neither me nor DH are academic but very creative. Our first DC (don’t know abbreviations new to this site) was very quick and went to grammar school. We have the old education system here. I brought up the issues re second DC… amazing vocab, creative, bright, quick to grasp concepts, interested in everything … politics etc. However, he struggled with spelling,reading, writing, constantly loosing stuff etc.

I couldn’t understand it as he seemed so bright. The teachers at school said he was just normal and eldest son was very academic so I was comparing unfairly. I gave up asking for him to be assessed and he struggled on.

When he got to secondary it came to a head. I was advised to get DC assessed for Dyslexia. I had to pay for it unfortunately as waiting lists are so long.

Bingo his IQ is exceptionally high but certain areas like audio processing very very low. There was a massive disparity. All the things he had issues with matched!!!

Since diagnosis DC has, most importantly, discovered with help he can achieve. He said it’s such a relief I’m not thick!

Second DC got much higher grade GCSES than First DC!

So I would suggest getting your DC assessed for Dyslexia.

Good luck

Oh bless her, she’s only 5! There may be an issue, or equally, she may be just fine - nobody should be trying to put any kind of label on such a young child. Schools very often get things wrong, especially with girls as they can mask all sorts of issues, all children learn at different rates sometimes speeding ahead, sometimes dawdling along. My own child did nothing, believe me when i say nothing - no work ( parents evening was traumatic for us) for at least two years whilst at infant school; but tested off the charts in all academic standardised tests. The school kept moving her up and down in maths and English as she tested highly but then refused to work, repeating the mantra that she was struggling! She wasn’t, she was bored, and asked to learn Mandarin- she was 6. She is now 17, and set on her undergraduate degree in mandarin and politics. Not struggling, trust your own judgement, but don’t make a big deal out of it with her - she’ll get there in her own sweet time xx

Does she have any other sensitivities around textures (the pencil and paper are too rough) any issues with tights, socks or the weight of the duvet for instance?
Perhaps you could consider a neurodiversity assessment?

@pumpkin20222 for books we found www.phonicbooks.co.uk/product-category/beginner-readers/dandelion-readers/ really good when the school didn't actually have any reading books that were phonics only after aaaaaall the classroom work they did on phonics 🙄

It gave them a real sense of satisfaction that they could read a 'whole story' (4 pages) from very early on, and really encouraged them because they knew they were already 'a reader' - even when they only had 12 letters under their belt.

There are loads of other series for reluctant readers or older children who have got to year 3 or 4 without really locking in their phonic decoding. I know some kids still learn fine through the old school look & recognise whole words method, but bloody Kipper & Biff had far too many 'exception' words in to help mine with their phonics & reading in the first 5 or so terms.

Hope that's helpful? x

Ask for her to be tested. This sounds very like my DD2 at the same age. She turns out to be dyslexic and has ADHD (which presents very differently in girls) High achiever at GCSE and A levels but didn't cope at uni (Russell Group Uni) owing to MH problems (ADHD related and high anxiety) and only came away with a 2.2. With hindsight we should have organised a more local uni for her to live at home for emotional support. Good luck!

Thank you @MeandT that looks a great resource.

Your poor daughter is struggling and all you seem to care about is her academic ability. My son is on the autistic spectrum with dyspraxia and ADD and really intelligent, so much so that his forensic psychiatrist said he was stunned by it. Yet he struggled at school, his handwriting was atrocious but we were urged to push him and push him. I didn’t see how unhappy he was because he kept everything to himself. When he was 18 he went to college to study music and after he got his BTEC he had a complete breakdown and said he wanted to kill himself. All the pressure from all those years had finally broken him. Now he’s 31 and doesn’t work but he is HAPPY. He holds intelligent conversations and has an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything he has ever read but he wasn’t cut out for academia or any kind of working environment. I am at peace with that because being happy should be what you want most for your child.