I think my dd is clever, school say she is really struggling. I feel like a knob.

[SewhereIam]

I have a 5 year old dd in year 1. She is my PSB, as my PFB is 13 years older and there are 6 miscarriages inbetween them, and PSB was a very poorly foetus and very poorly baby.

As a bit of background, I was a high achiever at school, went to Oxbridge, and PFB outshone me in her GCSE's and A-Levels, and is currently at a red brick university with hopes to do a masters PhD at Oxbridge, so academia means a lot to me and I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

DD2 has always had issues with her motor skills, and has had medical investigations for a suspected brain tumour and mild cerebral palsy when she was younger, but we have been very lucky and she is fine. She is incredibly quick, can outsmart me at every turn, is very self assured, loves word play and puns, and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. She has a fantastic vocabulary, a photographic memory and usually gets concepts first time (which is just infuriating 😂). I know I shouldn't say this, but out of the three of us I would say that she is mentally the quickest.

School have said that she is really behind. Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey. We have done a lot of work on fine and gross motor skills from pretty much day dot, but she is still finding it really hard. School have said she needs a lot of extra support and we need to do more at home with her, which is fine, but they also suggested that she is far below average intelligence. Apparently they see "glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate".

What can I do to help her? This isn't the dd2 I know, but maybe I have been blinded by her being my precarious child and my last baby. I feel like such an idiot, and like I have failed her terribly. Where do I start? I feel terrible.

One thing that I may have missed, is when your DD’s birthday is.

I have 3 DC, one August born, middle one is March (mid-year) and the youngest is October.

In secondary school, their month of birth is latgely irrelevant, but at 5 years old, there is a big difference between the autumn born and summer born. Think of it as a proportion of their life!

I have one, who I always thought of as clever, who was diagnosed with dyslexia in year 4, dyspraxia at 18 and now seeking ASD and ADHD diagnosis. Middle one diagnosed with visual processing disorder in year 9, she was the one I always considered the least clever, (but not stupid). However, given that she found coping strategies to cover a major learning difficulty until she was 13 (with a reading age of 8) I have actually been forced to reassess.!

The last one I think is actually the cleverest, but she is lazy. Who knows how she will progress.

Hmm, im an eyfs teacher and it sounds a bit odd that all they've spoken about is her fine motor skills and ability to record. Did you get to see any of the actual work she had done ? Could the teachers talk about what she knew specifically? Sometimes children aren't challenged enough because they lack the ability to record well enough people can assume that their ability is lower.

Our daughters both massively improved fine motor skills building Lego models and it’s fun too. I wouldn’t worry overly at 5 though. She’s so teeny and that year were pretty disrupted by covid

Yes! This is all a thread about how the child will be brilliant academically and so all will be resolved when they find the “problem” and then the child will be as brilliant as the parents!

it is so sad.

my eldest and youngest (I think probably although he’s only six) will NOT “catch up” in terms of academic brilliance. It’s like this thread only values “clever” children who’ll “catch up”. Some will, of course! But if you support and encourage and throw all you have at it - and they DON’T catch up?

then you value the child you have!

I have three. Very different ages and stages and all very different- my slow reader didn’t go to Oxford, or even university at all. He’s living his best life and I’m so proud of him. But no. He didn’t “catch up”.

And no chip on my shoulder - my middle child just did the 11 plus in a super selective area. I just value and am realistic about the other two. You TRY and help them as much as you can, but if they don’t follow an academic route, that’s fine too.

The OP said that herself. I think it is hammering the point to repeat it as though she hasn't.

I should say, by the way, that my very bright in KS1 but very poor fine motor skills’ child has gone on to do something not academic that is all about fine motor skills.. because neither what your child is like at 5, nor the Oxbridge PhD your parent might have, defines your life.

If your child cannot read or have good working memory at six, if he or she is struggling and behind at school by seven, they may well fly later on, but they MAY WELL NOT.

make sure you value them either way.

she could be dyspraxic or dyslexic or both, wouldn't make her any less smart, just learns differently

Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey.

isn't that completely normal for yr 1?

This !

why does she have to be academically brilliant ? She might bot be ‘clever ‘, so what ?

My younger son has the same problem. He has a bad core. He is an above average reader, excelling in other areas but struggles to write. He can make marks on a page but they are not legible. His school teacher told us she had adapted the lessons for him in order to not be concerned on the writing as if he was she worried that if he was it concentrated on it to much he would get annoyed and be come less excited about school life. She cut out big letters for him to practice with and a book if he gets three letters right he gets a sticker. He is so excited to get a sticker.

Maybe ask the class teacher for a meeting and see if adaptions could be made in the classroom.

She's five, for god's sake. Let her be five.

My daughter really struggled in year 1 and was always in ‘intervention’ groups for writing and maths. Her spelling was all over the place, letters backwards, couldn’t make sense of maths concepts. Like you I knew she was quite bright from how she was at home. I worked out eventually that after coping with the stress and sensory overwhelm of the classroom, she didn’t have much energy or focus left for the work, and was distracted by so many details. She is autistic - I suspected for years but school seemed to think she was just shy and not very bright, until the differences from her peers got more obvious as they all got older. She did get more able to manage the stress and distractions through the years, and had a couple of really kind and understanding teachers she flourished with - she went from ‘below expected’ in many things in year 1 to ‘above expected’ in everything in year 6 (I actually cried when I read her report, I’m so proud of how far she’s come). She’s not massively academic but has so many interests and talents now. Maybe work with school to see how you can make your dd feel as safe and calm as possible while she’s there, and focus on keeping her as happy as you can at home, to help her be able to focus on the work, and then you might all get a clearer idea of what her strengths are.

Perhaps start researching ways to strengthen motor skills - crafts, using scissors, play doh.
Do drawing in sand or on whiteboard sheet that sticks on the wall.

Could the school be hinting for you to apply for statement (ehcp)? That dd needs a TA to support her. If she has ASD she may need a smaller setting to get the best from her education.

I used to teach in a boarding/.day prep school, in a subject regarded as "intellectually challenging". There was a lad in year 7, "S", who had been diagnosed with asperger's, rarely spoke, isolated, had no friends, despite the other kids' attempts to be inclusive, avoided any contact, struggled with motor skills, yet he quickly grasped and apparently enjoyed the complexities of my subject. Whoever it was back a few pages who said that teachers could not gauge intelligence was wrong. It's an instinctive thing. The breakthrough came when DH, a man of tremendous insight and compassion for the underdog, started an evening club in programming, though not a trained teacher. At first, by invitation only. S was one of the invitees. Gradually they formed a bond, and S, and the others in the group, with a range of learning abilities opened up. S began to discuss the most amazingly complex mathematical concepts, metaphysics, epigenetics...a whole range of esoteric topics that gave DH a shiver down his spine. It took a great deal of restraint not to shout when, at a staff meeting to discuss kids' progress, he was flagged up as a problem, and was dismissed by one of the senior staff as "stupid". When we left the school, S volunteered to present me with the school gift. He spontaneously hugged me. In front of the whole school. It was one of the highlights of my teaching career, and still brings tears to my eyes. Don't let anyone put your child in a box, labelled, and closed forever. You know your child better than anyone.

Most of this thread is about how they’ll become top of the class with the right help. I think differently- it’s how you value your child when that DOESN’T happen. 🤷‍♀️ It’s like on here people can’t accept that people are just as great if they’re not what people consider “bright”

If it's any consolation, DS2 was similar. Very poorly as a baby. ASD diagnosis, along with ADD and dyspraxia. Really struggled with fine motor skills. Handwriting in bottom 6% of his age group. Couldn't (and wouldn't) write his own name until he was 7. Struggled to concentrate at school. Took until he was about 11 to be able to read the time and similar age to even begin to master his times tables. So, very 'behind' as teachers kept telling me.

But I knew he was bright. He was quick, sharp, funny, had an amazing vocab and loved NVR puzzles.

Like you I am Oxbridge and academic stuff matters to me. I kept reading to him, kept helping him.

He's now on track for a first from a very good Russell Group uni, was offered a place at a top US uni too and is considering applying to do a Masters at Cambridge.

Continue to believe in her. Continue to read with her, take her to museums and out in the world, encourage her to use numbers in ways that matter to her. If you think she is bright, she probably is.You are seeing something school is missing.May be that she;s not conventionally bright. or, if she has ASD she is so busy masking (a sign of HFA) that she's too exhausted to work on her academic stuff because the social side of school takes allher energy. That was true of DS2.

She sounds like my DS 7, he's also got a photographic memory and very intelligent IF he tries to focus which doesn't happen often as he has extreme ADHD. We recently started meds and they're helping a lot. I would say push for a diagnosis and try and work with school to get her the right support.

Another one with a neuro divergent child who found Primary difficult especially KS2. Diagnosed Splds working memory and processing, pathway to ASD, anxiety, big issues with spelling writing and maths, gifted IQ. What’s worked for us is being relaxed about things, working with her interests, encouraging outside interests. Secondary better than primary for her. Also - Having her assessed for an EHCP. Good luck!

She’s only 5 and clearly has some difficulty with her fine motor skills but that won’t necessarily translate into low academic ability. Both my children were in the bottom sets throughout primary school for both English & Maths which did surprise me somewhat as they both seemed smart & articulate at home. However they struggled in different ways to meet the milestones their schools were using to measure success at the time.

They both adapted over time and went to top Unis, one for Humanities one STEM. Not saying this always happens of course, but I do think 5 is too young to accept any kind of label re academic performance.

www.nagc.org/resources-publications/resources-parents/social-emotional-issues/asynchronous-development

I know gifted is one of those words, but asynchronous development might be something that helps you untangle things a bit.

My child struggled in school and was stressed there a lot, but was bored in maths - always his big interest. They couldn't give him harder work as his focus was so impaired by the other demands placed on him - various things plus a TA that was a nightmare - that he couldn't focus for long at all. He is ND. Struggled to get dressed by himself until about 7. Has no attention span unless he's interested in something, cannot take instruction without blowing a gasket if he's trying to do something himself, hears half a sentence and makes the rest up in his head and will swear blind his version is the truth. Still v "mathsy". Won't write because it's utterly slow and frustrating. Won't read at all (again suspect it's too slow and frustrating for the pace his brain wants it to be) but very capable reader, great vocab, good ear for languages, loads of wordplay, very into building and creating within the spheres that interest him. Was patiently trying to explain logic gates to me this weekend. Adores chemistry. I suspect he would do great in the right school now, but he has had some very rough times and the right school is really hard to find (we homeschool) - but he's come on so, so much since he was your DD's age. She's so young, she has so much time. The order of play in schools really bothers me at times because kids' lack of readiness in one area takes precedence because of the way kids are expected to work there. I would do as a PP suggested and ensure she's lifted up and her strengths emphasised, and keep an eye on how school frame her abilities when talking to her.

I know of a bright ND 5 year old who is being held back academically because the school can't see past her SEN to find out she's a bright little thing with brilliant logic/problem-solving skills, comprehension etc.

Our primary school pulled in Senco for four boys in DS class. Senco did the tests, said three were absolutely fine, the fourth was dyslexic. They were just boisterous boys with a neurotic deeply religious teacher who thought children should be quiet.

Some teachers know just enough to be dangerous.

And mine.

He's a clever lad who - when he has the correct support in place - thrives academically. Things like learning to drive, tying his shoelaces, learning to swim and most of all handwriting though - total disaster. Along with other things like organisation and prioritisation.