I think my dd is clever, school say she is really struggling. I feel like a knob.

[SewhereIam]

I have a 5 year old dd in year 1. She is my PSB, as my PFB is 13 years older and there are 6 miscarriages inbetween them, and PSB was a very poorly foetus and very poorly baby.

As a bit of background, I was a high achiever at school, went to Oxbridge, and PFB outshone me in her GCSE's and A-Levels, and is currently at a red brick university with hopes to do a masters PhD at Oxbridge, so academia means a lot to me and I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

DD2 has always had issues with her motor skills, and has had medical investigations for a suspected brain tumour and mild cerebral palsy when she was younger, but we have been very lucky and she is fine. She is incredibly quick, can outsmart me at every turn, is very self assured, loves word play and puns, and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. She has a fantastic vocabulary, a photographic memory and usually gets concepts first time (which is just infuriating 😂). I know I shouldn't say this, but out of the three of us I would say that she is mentally the quickest.

School have said that she is really behind. Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey. We have done a lot of work on fine and gross motor skills from pretty much day dot, but she is still finding it really hard. School have said she needs a lot of extra support and we need to do more at home with her, which is fine, but they also suggested that she is far below average intelligence. Apparently they see "glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate".

What can I do to help her? This isn't the dd2 I know, but maybe I have been blinded by her being my precarious child and my last baby. I feel like such an idiot, and like I have failed her terribly. Where do I start? I feel terrible.

Children with difficult births and some type of discreet brain injury (often not showing on MRI scans) are often diagnosed with ASC when in fact it is an aquired brain injury. Hence the early concerns around cerebral palsy and motor skills.

Lots of research and discussion as to whether the ASC was underlying and the brain insult at birth kicked off the condition, or whether a lot of ASC is actually a discreet brain injury. Either way, you treat the same, but to understand her motor difficulties and possible executive functioning and looking at ABI may give you some insight into her issues. Obviously continue with the diagnosis but its worth mentioning the birth issues as there may be slightly differing approaches to support that can be given.

Have you read up on dyspraxia? It's what came to mind when reading your post. We were told by my sons year 2 teacher to get him assessed by an occupational therapist as "his writing doesn't match his intelligence". He was then diagnosed with dyspraxia. Best of luck!

Has she dyslexia or dyspraxia?

My eldest has both probably ASD too but she was also diagnosed as G and T when she was diagnosed which did not translate into her learning in the early years due to coordination and spelling issues but it has translated into results now she is older. Her resource teacher knew she was G and T before diagnosis but her mainstream primary teachers did not remotely recognise her ability until she was 11-12 ish.

Have a read of this OP, I think it will resonate with you . www.specialneedsguide.co.uk/news/a-parents-guide-to-understanding-your-childs-spiky-learning-profile

I was told in the first week of reception that my son was behind at writing! This was dispute him attending the school nursery. He was however moved into the year one class for phonics as he was such a good reader. I don't doubt that he isn't the best at writing (although has made huge improvements) but I would class him as pretty intelligent. And let's face it, when they get older they are going to be typing mainly anyway. Schools often put a lot of pressure on kids.

You are the expert on your own child. I trust what you believe about her.

Try retained reflex therapy

Please be careful with your own mindset. At this age this like Oxbridge will go completely over DD head but a general feeling that she is doing something wrong may not.
It will also help later down the line. My father never needed to say he was disappointed I didn’t have the musical abilities of the rest of the family but I still feel a disappointment.

I was very surprised at your description of her, it is not of a five year old but a much older child. It reads like this is what you’ve decided she is, so that’s what you have believed. Do what the school says , some of it is very basic, like writing with s pencil.

I'm a teacher and cannot fathom ever even hinting that a child is below average intelligence. Nor would any of my colleagues. Its so inappropriate! For a start, teachers have no way of measuring intelligence. I have no idea of the IQ of the children in my class unless I have a report from an educational psychologist for them. Anyway, aside from the fact that your daughter is already on the pathway for diagnosis, I'd just give it time and continue to spend quality time together.

It is often the case that children respond very differently at home in familiar surroundings with people they know well than they do in a larger, noisier group, where taking turns is encouraged , interrupting is frowned on, and going off topic is not encouraged. Some children find it so hard to adjust to the way they are expected to express themselves in school, that they might decide that if they can’t speak and be listened to in the same way in school as they are at home then they won’t join in, or maybe they don’t have the social skills to listen to other peoples ideas and input, or can’t quite work out when it is their turn to speak. All of which can limit the way a child is seen to contribute to and understand classroom discourse.

The poor motor skills could be a result of the CP, keep on with the co ordination exercises and also emphasise the starting points and directions for writing letters (and numerals ) so that as the hand skills improve your dd is ready to move on to the next stage of handwriting, it can be easy to copy letter shapes so they look ok but are written wrongly for joining. Remember that gross motor skills develop faster than fine skills, so encourage bike riding, scooting, ball catching skills, kicking skills, skipping, hopping etc as well.

My DS has untidy hand writing but his work is correct even though I struggle to read it at times. He's fab at maths too.

Can your DD read? Ìts a bit odd that's the schools advice is to do more work at home... is that all what was said OP? If she's struggling she's struggling what are the school putting in place?

You’ve had some good advice as to how to support your daughter, but you wrote it yourself;

I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

Success to you is academic achievement. All those people teaching and helping your daughter likely do not have PhDs from Oxbridge yet are the ones navigating her through early years curriculum. Do you consider them ‘unsuccessful’? She is not you, nor her sister, and the world needs a variety of talents. We wouldn’t get very fair if everyone wanted to continue in academia.

I think you need to spend some time reflecting on your value system and getting comfortable that your DD may be exceptionally bright, or exceptionally average but contribute to society in lots of other ways. She may or may not succeed in academia simply because she doesn’t want to as much as anything, and what makes her happy is being a PT or clothes designer or social worker etc.

Children develop at their own pace and it seems a little counterproductive to compare your DD2, who has had a number of medical issues and challenges to overcome so far in her life, to other children her age. These things will have sapped her energy and attention and may mean that she is behind (if indeed she is) for reasons entirely unrelated to her innate intelligence. As people have said, it's just too early to tell anyway.

Take your DC for an assessment at the National Association for Gifted Children. I took both of mine there and it really helped unravel a situation that school was not getting right. www.nagc.org/.

I used to be your dd

i was very behind at school-really lagging but this was the 80’s and things like dyslexia just didn’t seem to exist

I was really unhappy at school-bullied by teachers for being ‘thick’ and kids for,well who knows?my face didn’t fit

not helped my my parents (open) disappointment in how ‘behind’ I was-they don’t believe dyslexia exists (my father is Mensa intelligent and my mother has ‘normal’ intelligence)

I started secondary school and came on in leaps and bounds-it was my time but I failed all my exams

i left school,got a job and years later went back to college who diagnosed me with not only dyslexia but dyspraxia too which made a lot of sense

their support meant I flew through the course,passed every single exam and I’m very proud of myself for graduating

id get her assessed and take it from there-she’s so young and she will find her stride in her own time,but having a ‘label’ and with that extra support will help no end

good luck

ASD kids often struggle with fine motor skills. Doesn’t mean they are not intelligent. I would rethink the school to be honest I don’t think they sound supportive. I have a very high flying good at everything elder child and an ASD child that scores very highly in CAT tests but it doesn’t show consistent in his work at secondary. Most important thing for an ASD child is to not feed the natural anxiety that many of them have, they need a supportive atmosphere. DC2 is at a fabulous school not all his teachers understand ASD but he feels valued and his strengths are celebrates. Will he get perfect GCSEs no but he will go to uni. I would look at schools with small classes and with the atmosphere of trying to get the best for each child.

ASD kids/young adults have alarming rates of poor mental health, schools refusal and just poor outcomes. Our jobs as a parent with ASD is to to give them the best possible outcomes and support. Wobbly writing doesn’t matter my DS now does all his work on a laptop.

When I was in Yr one my teacher said similar. Basically that I was a bit thick, my work was messy, my handwriting rubbish. That I was destined for bottom table. The messiness and poor handwriting plagued me all through primary. Im not sure why primary teachers seem to think poor handwriting = poor work

In the end I got the best A levels in my school, got a great degree and am now studying postgrad at cambridge.

When a child is 5 there are so many variables. I don't think any Yr one teacher can give any kind of longterm prognosis of a child's intelligence. And I would be wary of any that did. Yes she maybe behind with her handwriting but it doesn't mean she will be behind forever. And handwriting is no mark of intelligence/ability

One thing I was very shy. I hated reading to my teacher and was terrified of getting it wrong so often just didn't speak. My Yr R teacher was terrifying and I remember feeling so ashamed when I couldn't read a page that I think it scarred my for life! Could your DD just be scared of reading to the teacher? Does she find her teacher intimidating? Is she scared of being wrong?

My handwriting is still shit and my work still messy though

hAs she had a recent hearing and vision test? Even minor difficulties could mean struggling in a busy classroom while being fine at home on a 1-1 basis. So that would be my first check as it is cheap and easy to do.

She is 5 years old - please try to remember that the UK is very very unusual in expecting 'formal learning' and attainment of this age of child!

In most European countries - including countries where children do better academically like Finland - children start reading and writing at 7!

Your child is a baby - compared to most children globally she would still be in kindergarten working on her GROSS motor skills (we make the mistake of expecting small work before the big development of throwing catching/ climbing trees!)

please let go of your unrealistic expectations of a 5 year old with some delays and perhaps a neurodiverse mind and just let her play more!

The handwriting/back to front letters don't reflect her IQ but her motor skills and possible undiagnosed learning difficulty. The school are probably just judging her intelligence by the written work she produces. Have Wechsler tests or the school-age equivalent done by an Ed Psych (should be available through the school). They should reveal your DD's pattern of strengths and weaknesses to help you and the school to support your DD to progress.

Test her for dyslexia.

I had to completely rejig my thinking for my son, who has Asperger’s. He is incredibly intelligent, but doesn’t perform at school, partly because if he can’t see the point in something, he doesn’t engage well. I think he will do well in life, and might end up as a high achiever in something, but I’ve adjusted my expectations about his school marks. I know exactly what you mean though. I was also a high achiever and assumed my children would be the same. It does take some mental adjustment, but it is worth working on it.

Also - and it sounds like you are aware of this so I say it kindly - give yourself a shake about the use of 'academic' as a word anywhere near a 5 year old.

She is an individual - maybe she is going to test your ideas of what 'high achieving ' means - maybe she won't go to oxford, maybe she won't get top a -levels - maybe she will be happy and rounded and creative - maybe she won't be!

Maybe she will be bottom of the class but a great friend

You sound totally focused on 'academic' achievement and I just can't understand applying that to a child so young.

If she has some special educational needs, it may not be possible to even tell at this age.

@DodgyLeftLeg , I totally agree with you. I probably shouldn't have put the background stuff about me and her sister in, I don't know why I did really. I consider her to be cleverer than me, I should have just written that. I really, really like and respect her teachers and TA's, and their experiences with her, which is why I am doubting my own thoughts so much.

The teacher didn't say she had a below average IQ directly, she said she was working towards the bottom of the class and needed a lot of extra support. Also that they have seen a lot of improvement over the term, but dd is still working on fine motor when the other children are doing the set work, and so she will just get further behind.