I think my dd is clever, school say she is really struggling. I feel like a knob.

[SewhereIam]

I have a 5 year old dd in year 1. She is my PSB, as my PFB is 13 years older and there are 6 miscarriages inbetween them, and PSB was a very poorly foetus and very poorly baby.

As a bit of background, I was a high achiever at school, went to Oxbridge, and PFB outshone me in her GCSE's and A-Levels, and is currently at a red brick university with hopes to do a masters PhD at Oxbridge, so academia means a lot to me and I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

DD2 has always had issues with her motor skills, and has had medical investigations for a suspected brain tumour and mild cerebral palsy when she was younger, but we have been very lucky and she is fine. She is incredibly quick, can outsmart me at every turn, is very self assured, loves word play and puns, and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. She has a fantastic vocabulary, a photographic memory and usually gets concepts first time (which is just infuriating 😂). I know I shouldn't say this, but out of the three of us I would say that she is mentally the quickest.

School have said that she is really behind. Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey. We have done a lot of work on fine and gross motor skills from pretty much day dot, but she is still finding it really hard. School have said she needs a lot of extra support and we need to do more at home with her, which is fine, but they also suggested that she is far below average intelligence. Apparently they see "glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate".

What can I do to help her? This isn't the dd2 I know, but maybe I have been blinded by her being my precarious child and my last baby. I feel like such an idiot, and like I have failed her terribly. Where do I start? I feel terrible.

Sounds like my PFB. He is very clever but struggles hugely at school. He is Y4 now but has struggled since he started. He has had glue ear (now rectified) and has a diagnosis of slow processing speed, dyslexia, ADHD Inattentive Type and Autism.

I believe his intelligence is the kind that will not be measured in academic settings. Many people strengths in areas that schools don't or cannot measure. I think the trick is to:

1. Get your child the support they need in order to get through education until the age of 18.
2. Build their self confidence elsewhere to keep them strong.
3. Get them interested in stuff outside of school which they can succeed in so they get to experience a buzz.

Your daughter sounds lovely. My son is too.

Hear hear @CathyTre Sometimes we forget that most people are of average intelligence and have happy fulfilled lives. Being clever or academic does not automatically bring happiness or success.

I agree. According to most parents, their child is super bright and super attractive.
In reality, most of us are average, some below average and some above.
And all the research shows children do better if you value the effort they put in rather than the outcome. Trying their best really does matter.

I would be concerned that the school may inadvertently be holding her back, if they have a lot of focus on getting words on paper. With potential school disruption and also having a child who is young in the year, I have done some work outside of school, but with an emphasis of keeping stress off. This is what has worked well - sharing as the maths course is online, so offers a chance to learn at their own pace and not have to worry about writing the numbers:

Mathsfactor - five to ten minutes most days, has generated a solid understanding of basic maths after a year. The methodology seems sound, unlike some online programmes which are only learning by rote.

Cosmickids is brilliant for yoga that follows different stories, with nice lessons and mindfulness built in. Usually I join in!

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a basic reading course?

'Teach your monster to read' or 'Reading Eggs' @Pumpkin20222

Or some of the Nessy reading programmes may be worth exploring.

My daughter was deemed ' behind' at that age because of her reading and writing, and had interventions at break at school - she's now doing maths and philosophy at Bristol - she caught up around aged 7 (normal time for schooling in the rest of Europe!)

I just wish they wouldn’t use the word ‘behind’ with a 5 year old! As said, in other countries they wouldn’t even be in formal education yet.

My worry, as someone else has said, is that the school are overly focused on fine motor skills and labelling her based on this. This is one area which all kids master at different rates and no indication of intelligence.

If she is dyslexic/dyspraxic then early help and support will help so I’d get an assessment done (think you are doing). She may well have a spiky profile- my DS was years ahead with verbal reasoning but appalling spelling and maths (the things they focus on at primary). So he’s a bright boy, reads well, high emotional intelligence- but was made to feel stupid for the first few years of primary. Just keep an eye on that and push for support if that is the diagnosis.

Sounds like she could be dyslexic. They should do a screener for it in year R (or at least my local authority do). Being very articulate and quick thinking but not being able to get ideas on paper is classic dyslexia. Dyslexics often have trouble with motor skills too.
If school haven't done a screener already, it is worth pressing for it (I think it is called DST).

They shouldn’t be talking about intelligence at this stage!

What is PSB and PFB?

The daughter that you see is totally real. School is all square pegs and round holes. It’s very sad that there’s such disparity but keep your faith in her. You are her biggest advocate and you just have to stand up for her and tell them what she is good at. You’re not a failure and neither is she.

Lots of good advice here, but given that she's only five, please don't worry too much. Just remember that in large tracts of Europe, kids are still in kindergarten till the age of 6 and in Sweden, where they do pretty well, they don't start formal schooling till 7. These ages certainly change all the time, but on the whole, they are a bit more laid back than we are. I am not surprised she does better in a group of ten than in a group of thirty! I think that would apply to most adults as well.

As the mother of a dyspraxic-fantastic son, I agree with PP who have mentioned dyspraxia. I felt like a knob too. Get a referral to a paediatrician (you will wait about 100 years) and get a diagnosis. In the meantime, read up on dyspraxia and see if you agree. Don't try and "fix" your child and make everything better. You will try to. It's natural. I did. Getting your head around a diagnosis and potential limitations takes time. Much love ❤️

How can anyone talk about beloe average about a child. A five year old being 'behind'. It is no wonder children become depresses and suicidal. I have never listened to a single teacher about how my children do in school. Let school sort it. At home is FAMILY TIME! None of my children were pushed to ' do better'. What on earth for? To have a life of working and very little play? It scares me to death. There are so many ways to make a living. You should go with what she IS good at. It will all come together with time.

This was me when I was five. In reality I was sneaking books of the advanced level book (it was one of those reading scheme things so I was on pink but was getting the fuschia ones)

I couldn't write very well. But I was very literate, amazing vocabulary etc.

I just think the primary school have a very narrow view.

I struggled with hand writing all the way i till was in my mid twenties. No I can do a beautiful script flowing script bir notes are quite scrawled. My GCSE books are really clear but very printed and not easy flowing.

Personally I'd ignore it. I reckon I have dyspraxia I'm very clumsy. At a level the French teacher wanted me to have a dyslexia assessment

I don't have children sadly but i might have done home Ed for first few years.

Obviously keep an eye on her but she is so little. My premature son had similar and now he is in top set for everything at 15. My daughter was absolutely atrocious at everything in primary school and has now achieved two A*s and an A in her mocks for A Level in English Language, History and Politics.

If I’d have known then what I do now! X

She's 5....if she picks things up that quick at home I wouldn't worry yet... obviously mental note of anything that needs assessment (dys.... (add end here)).
There are two left field possibilities

1. She's not wanting to stand out
2. She senses your anxiety and gravity you put on learning

3.The teacher is bonkers

Never in all my too many years have I ever heard even a mediocre teacher describe a 5 year old as below average intelligence. I've done booster lessons with years 1 to 6 and 2 x 20 minute sessions a week for one term can work wonders (my worst result was increasing reading age 6 month & comprehension a year..... and I don't think it's down to me personally)

My point is she's 5!!!
Yes keep an eye on things but I seriously would worry more about the teacher than your dd.

Crikey this thread is gross and so full of elitist ableist crap.

Heres a snippet. Being less than average academically doesn’t mean you’re a less than average human.

I went to ‘Oxbridge’ not exactly Oxford is it

when is her birthday @SewhereIam ? is she young for her year? a few months can make a huge difference at that age.

I was told my, then, 5yr old was "below average" academically and needed extra help from the SEN team. Luckily I was a teacher and so had the confidence to reply that I would expect quite a few of the class to be below average as that's how averages work. I knew she just needed time to mature a bit as she was the youngest in the class.

She went on to get very good A levels, a 2:1 in her degree and a great career.

And teachers diagnose intelligence now do they? Worrying!

What is psb and pfb?

This wad my thought. Try letting her use a laptop to do work and see if this helps. I know schools focus on handwriting but you child needs assessing and to be given the equipment required to help her.
I worked with a child who had dyspraxia and he used a laptop for English and was supported for maths. Ofsted will expect to see progress for the child not for the setting so don't worry about your child not meeting expectations. If her mind is sharp, this will show when she has the right equipment and strategies in place.

Try not to worry. DD was the same last year in Yr 1 and is now flying in Yr 2. She finds what they are doing in class slow and boring and writes quite quickly because she has lots to say so spelling and letter formation is often her second thought.

I suspect she will forever have the kind of handwriting that I associate with extremely able teenage boys- tiny, spikey spiders having a fight.

I would also say that writing some letters and numbers backwards is perfectly normal. DD did is with the numbers 3 and 5 consistently last year and it’s all now clicked into place.

We get books from the library for her to read at night to herself and read the more boring school reader in the morning over breakfast.

^This