I think my dd is clever, school say she is really struggling. I feel like a knob.

[SewhereIam]

I have a 5 year old dd in year 1. She is my PSB, as my PFB is 13 years older and there are 6 miscarriages inbetween them, and PSB was a very poorly foetus and very poorly baby.

As a bit of background, I was a high achiever at school, went to Oxbridge, and PFB outshone me in her GCSE's and A-Levels, and is currently at a red brick university with hopes to do a masters PhD at Oxbridge, so academia means a lot to me and I put a lot of time and effort in to making sure my girls have everything they need to be able to suceed. (This is my problem, I know, there is more to life than academics).

DD2 has always had issues with her motor skills, and has had medical investigations for a suspected brain tumour and mild cerebral palsy when she was younger, but we have been very lucky and she is fine. She is incredibly quick, can outsmart me at every turn, is very self assured, loves word play and puns, and is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis. She has a fantastic vocabulary, a photographic memory and usually gets concepts first time (which is just infuriating 😂). I know I shouldn't say this, but out of the three of us I would say that she is mentally the quickest.

School have said that she is really behind. Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey. We have done a lot of work on fine and gross motor skills from pretty much day dot, but she is still finding it really hard. School have said she needs a lot of extra support and we need to do more at home with her, which is fine, but they also suggested that she is far below average intelligence. Apparently they see "glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate".

What can I do to help her? This isn't the dd2 I know, but maybe I have been blinded by her being my precarious child and my last baby. I feel like such an idiot, and like I have failed her terribly. Where do I start? I feel terrible.

Get your DD properly assessed by clinical psychologist. The school might be mistaken.

"Glimpses of great ideas in there but they just don't translate" sounds like a great description of a neurodiverse child - I think that's what you are seeing here. She's bright but she's struggling with the requirements of year 1. As you're already on a diagnosis pathway, I hope you'll be given more tips and support as part of this process.

Well, shaky, wobbly letters isn't necessarily an indicator of intelligence. Someone can have wonderful ideas but just not be able to get them down on paper properly (Stephen Hawking springs to mind!).

What does school say about her ability to discuss topics, answer questions in class, converse with her peers, give suggestions and ideas... I'm a bit surprised that school are using her motor skills to judge her academic ability.

How’s her concentration? Can she sit still for very long? How does she contribute in a group?

Could you ask for a referral to occupational therapy and Physiotherapy? It sounds as if it could be her physical difficulties holding her back. If there’s long waiting lists spike you be able to look into this privately?

Start by not projecting yourself and your eldest child onto her.

If it's fine motor skills she needs, play games involving that. Using chopsticks, scissors, colouring in, writing, drawing.

But mostly slow down and relax about all of this. She's very little still, plenty of time to grow and develop.

Support her. Don't let her feel as if she is anything other than an amazing individual who can succeed in whatever she sets her mind to.

It is very possible to be highly intelligent and dyslexic/dyspraxic. See where the appointments go and enforce any support that comes off the back of them but mostly don't let these issues cloud how you treat her.

It sounds odd - both that there would be such a disconnect between what you both see and also that the school would be so blunt at this age as to say she’s far below average intelligence. What did the school suggest as a next step? Did they help to to organise at least basic steps such as hearing and vision tests prior to further educational assessment?

Firstly you haven’t failed her. Kids develop different skills at different rates so maybe she’ll take longer with motor skills.

saying that she sounds a bit like dd at that age. By 7yo she’d been diagnosed with dyslexia and dyspraxia so keep that in mind it’s a possibility when there’s a mismatch between verbal ability and classroom achievement. With dd the school didn’t pick up on it. My dad who was a teacher suggested it and we paid for a private assessment.

Oh and get pencil grips if she doesn’t have them already

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Ask the school for specifics - eg putty for finger strength/sand or icing sugar for letter formation - make sure they are not using bloody whiteboards......let's face it no-one can write neatly on them....

Then trust your instincts - read with her, get her to read to you, play games, spend time outside identifying trees/flowers/birds/colours of diors/ letters on street signs, climb, kick a football - let her enjoy being a child.
They almost all get to the required level in their own time. Give her space to flourish. Vocab/quick thinking are valuable skills just not on the national curriculum!

My son is exactly the same re writing and motor skills, and he has Dyspraxia.

What else have school said? Wobbly writing and letters isn't a huge problem, but i'm assuming they've given you more of an indication as to why they think she's behind?

Also I think you need to let go of intelligence being the most important part of a person. I suspect DD has picked up on your desire for being clever and that's a tall bar to live up to. Not everyone can be the smartest academically, and her talents may lie elsewhere, but you don't seem see much beyond academic results.

Her writing and numbers are very clearly wobbly and usually back to front and very shakey.

Er, at 5, in the first term of Yr 1, I am not sure how this translates as struggling academically!

Yes, she might need motor skills support as a result of her issues but my Dc currently doing a STEM masters at a leading Uni with a clutch of A*s, 9s and 8s in GCSEs and A levels could barely write and couldn’t read in term 1 of Yr 1.

You’re already helping her, and so is the school, you really need to give her a break. I think you need to take this ridiculous pressure off a child that is barely past the toddler stage! You say that you are failing her terribly, but are clearly feeling like she’s failing you because she slower at some things compared to her peers, even when you say she’s massively ahead on other things. She shouldn’t be compared to anyone, let alone her adult mother and sister! Despairing at the thought that a 5 year old might not get into Oxford and do her masters is ridiculous. She shouldn’t be made to feel like she’s failing because she’s got wobbly handwriting when she’s only just learning. And not being academic doesn’t make her a failure if that turns out to be the case anyway.

Bizarre that the school has discussed her being ‘below average intelligence’. DD has SEN/dyslexia and never once have they mentioned intelligence. (FWIW I think she’s incredibly bright but not academically so, she’s very charismatic and able to read people well, has great emotional intelligence and an eye for art/colour far beyond her years, despite me being at oxbridge uni as a mature student while she was a baby- because she’s not me, she’s her own person with her own skills and interests)

@Thereisnolight I don't think school has actually said 'bluntly' that OP's DD is below average intelligence . OP has said they have 'inferred' this. It may be more what the OP is projecting from what has actually been said . It would be a strange and inappropriate comment for a school to make about a 5 year old .

She sounds amazing. Has she been checked for dyslexia? Sounds like her school is not drawing out what you notice at home, for whatever reason. Is she happy there? Maybe just a few tweaks are needed and all will be well.

My DD5 is also in year 1. Vocabulary and ideas far outstrip her writing ability and she prefers me reading chapter books to her to reading herself which she finds boring as her comprehension is ahead of her phonics.

I’m worried that the school would tell you she was far below average based upon wonky letters - hand strength and fine motor don’t correlate to intellect. Do they mean she’s behind in that area?

As another ex Oxbridge Mum to a girl that age on the pathway to ASD diagnosis remember they are very little, and if she’s ASD she will be exhausted by year 1 emotionally and from a sensory perspective. Pushing too hard at home may be counter productive and burn her out. We’ve cut back on activities and don’t do much learning stuff at home other than reading with DD. They are tired. And very little.

Hugs to you both x

Thank you so much for replying, you have all been so lovely.

School said her concentration has improved significantly now that she is in a much smaller group (10 instead of 30 pupils) and that she gets on "reasonably well" with her peers. They also said her work was much more legible on a whiteboard with a chunky whiteboard marker, and she clearly struggled/got distressed using a pencil and paper and says that it is "too rough".

School have suggested that we read more with her at home (we read every night, both the school reading book and bedtime stories for 30 mins before lights out) but also said her reading waa excellent. She also needs to do spellings and lots of fine motor skills work at home. She has sight tests every 6 months due to a lazy eye and has recently had a hearing test at the hospital and it was 100%.

I do definitely need to stop any comparisons, I feel awful that I do compare the girls "at that age", and in general personality, but I never do so in a derogatory way. I just find it interesting that siblings can be so different and varied.

What did the Reception teachers say about her?

So do the same sums/writing with a solid alphabet and numbers. Try a pen on a whiteboard or glass, try pencil grips, a writing slope, if she’s hypermobile try gloves or splints, or a heavy graphite pencil heated on a radiator. Try typing.
I used to buy tons of stuff from Montessori shops (my favourite was called Absorbentminds but it may not be the same now).

The two girls are not the same, and your dd is not the same as you. That's got to be your starting point. She might have dyslexia, dyspraxia, as well as ASD as they often go together, or she might just not be great at writing! All the other stuff about your ability, her sister is irrelevant to her unless you make it so. Please just try to let her be herself and not worry too much about 'making' her academic, she sounds wonderful and all that stuff will shine through, whether or not she is great at writing.

Oh and dd is hoping to go to Cambridge next year for postgrad study so don’t think it’s the end of the world even if she is a bit behind currently.

I remember having a similar experience with my 14 year old dd.. She was below average in all subjects. I cried my eyes out for days. Like you I couldn't see it. To me she was very bright. Articulate and sharp. She had just turned 8 and had done her standerised tests. "Well below average" for maths. After meeting with her teacher she said the complete opposite that dd was more than capable in all subjects. Yes maths isn't her strongest subject but she's flying it in all subjects now in Secondary. Your daughter is only 5 and with the difficulties she's had the school shouldn't be talking about below average intelligence!