5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

[eucalippy]

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you?

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

This is absolutely dreadful. So sad.
I have three lovely, docile, sweet dogs and two little nephews and I would NEVER leave my dogs alone with the kids. Its my duty of care to both nephews and dogs. So sorry to read this story, its just horrible.

Thanks @WiddlinDiddlin

There's no easy solution I see! The weight I'm guessing will cover the most dangerous, in the wrong hands, breeds.

he was on an extendable lead but tied up outside a cafe, and the extender cable somehow broke as he was straining so hard and must've been 2 foot from the baby's face, going mental.

I hate extendible leads - they give an illusion of control that very often isn't there.

The owner came up and was beating the dog over the head with a chain to get it to release.

The owner was an idiot. That makes the dog think it's under attack and it becomes more aggressive. Anyone who is afraid to grab their own dog's collar shouldn't have a dog at all.

Not unpopular with me - I agree! @Cliveandclyde

I popped into a new coffee shop
in Edinburgh recently and this dog lying under its owner tables kept approaching me as I was opening the door. I had to ask one of the baristas to keep it away from me, since the owner wasn’t paying attention.

I could literally smell the dog and had to find a corner of the coffee far away from it. There are notices about dog friendly cafes etc but there doesn’t seem to be many NoticeS about dog-free places? The exception is hotels, you can easily see if they accept a pet or not and I try to avoid the ones which do.

I’d like there to be more signage so people who do not want to be around strange dogs know where to go as I’m sick of having a dinner or coffee date interrupted by a dog sitting next to me!

Exactly, I had one of those powerful type terrier dogs - not sure of the specific breed- go for me in my apartment building. I was not even looking at it and was deep in thought until it lunged at me. Thankfully the owner wrapped the lead a bit closer and i managed to step out the way and head out the door. I did complain to building manger but don’t think anything was done about it and I’ve moved since thankfully.

I also had a dog try to bite me in Thailand as I came out of my b&b. I was told by a local hotel security guard that particular dog goes about biting people a lot. It was only because he noticed what was going on and threw stones at it that it left me alone.

I agree - and it wouldn't surprise me if it rips his lip off.

I have an eight year old cockapoo. If the children visiting were smaller than him he stayed on a lead until they left. He has always been a happy docile dog with excellent training and recall. He does kill rats in the garden ( we are rural). This year he went for a puppy in the local park. Never done it before. Seemingly nothing to do with training and not I’ll. His time on the lead is now permanent unless late or early and nobody/no dogs about.

Good god you do talk some absolute claptrap!

Dogs are NOT wolves, and they are not descended from modern wolf.

Dogs and wolves diverged from a common ancestor some 40'000 years ago.

What makes dogs dogs and not wolves is their desire to be with people, be around people, respond to people.

But further more, wolves are NOT 'savage and frenzied killers' either, where the FUCK did you get that? Wolves are pretty shy and retiring creatures, they want to avoid humans at all cost really, they hunt and kill to survive of course, but they're highly social animals.

They look after their old and young - they are a family group, not a pack of unrelated animals, just a big family.

Everyone helps raise the young, they tolerate cubs climbing all over their food, taking the best bits out of an older wolfs mouth, they regurgitate food for each others weaning young, they will do the same for elderly wolves too sometimes.

They spend a lot of time killing small rodents and will scavenge if there is something tasty to be found.

They avoid aggression, they do not fight for alpha/dominant status - aggression is an expensive behaviour for wild animals, it can cost their lives so they only use it if they absolutely have to. Much is ritualised and all about body language and posturing rather than actual contact.

Wolves raised from tiny cubs, do not end up behaving like dogs - they behave like wolves and make spectacularly bad pets as a result.

The estimated dog population of the world is 900 million. Very few of them kill people. Very few. Startlingly few in fact, vanishingly few.

People kill more people. We are by far the more dangerous species.

@namethattunein1 Gilden Retreivers appear on the list not fair above your post, response for 4 deaths, same as Alaskan Malamutes

widdlindiddlin one of the best posts I’ve ever read on MN x

@namethattunein1 sorry the post naming the Golden Retriever is below your post, I was reading the thread back to front

I don't know how you'd ever come to terms with a tragedy like this . Almost incomprehensible. I can't think of a single thing worse in life than losing your children in such a shocking way .

Wolves are scared of people, and will avoid them if they can.

Don’t be so ridiculous. Compare the number of of people who own cars, with the number of people killed by them. Then compare the number of people who own dogs to the number of people who have been killed by them.

And when you have numbers that are different by several orders of magnitude, you can start campaigning for cars to be banned, as they so much more unsafe that those dogs you think are disgusting (and climate change?!). This is utterly irrational hyperbole and bears absolutely no scrutiny. Don’t have a dog if you don’t want one. But confine your downright rude judgement to your own house.

Pretty sure I've seen that on tiktok or similar before. The guys an utter moron.

Realistically what’s the best thing to do if you or your child is attacked by a dog? Is there anything you can do to help or lessen injuries? How best to defend?

8 years with no incidents. Suddenly two year old starts walking and won’t leave them alone. Dogs not being walked enough causing frustration. Crying baby causing owner to be stressed. Recipe for disaster. Respect animals look after them properly this is an intelligent and athletic breed. Walk dogs, give them space away from kids. Train kids to be respectful. Train dogs to be respectful. But people are idiots and want a powerful breed for the status. Have a dog that suits your needs and your real life. For some people that is a stuffed dog toy not a large pit.

I'm surprised we haven't had the When they've tasted human blood they get the lust to kill again and again gobshite clap trap as well !

Thats the one I haven't checked off my 'crap people talk about dogs' bingo sheet!

I do agree something needs to be done, the common denominator though is PEOPLE, not dogs. It isn't 'breeds' - first it was rotties, and dobes and gsds and pitbulls were easy to ban as they weren't recognised and had no breed club and no support from the old boys institution that is the Kennel Club so away they went...

... but now we have more illegal 'type' dogs now than the day that ban came into force (because of the way the legislation was worded btw, people aren't smuggling in pitbulls, you can MAKE a pitbull yourself by breeding a pedigree labrador and a pedigree staffordshire bull terrier together - other recipes exist..)

There was mass hysteria, the government pandered to the masses and said 'Yes, we will ban the nasty pitbulls and the Japanese Tosas, Fila Brasilieros, Dogo Argentinos...(because again, they weren't here, at all, its very easy to eradicate something that doesn't exist somewhere) and that will stop all the little children from being mauled and killed by nasty doggies'...

And off everyone went and thought 'excellent, job done, nothing more to do here'...

And here we are, 30+ years later, two years down the line from a huge boom in irresponsible dog breeding and dog purchase during the pandemic lockdowns - all those dogs are 12 to 24 months old - adolescence for large breeds - and we're seeing issues.
Because when you ban something, without addressing any of the root issues - or looking at the people involved... you just make that issue pop up somewhere else.

I looked it up earlier, there are around 900 million dogs on the planet.

The vast majority of them will be untrained, poorly bred, badly handled, needs not properly met...

That they only kill a tiny handful of people... is testament to how bloody tolerant dogs actually are, and how well on the whole, they work with people.

Dog related deaths are news because its not all that common...

And before anyone says 'well one person is too many, ban them all' I agree with the first part, not the second. Because we're the biggest killer of our own species, and of our own children, bar none.

I do agree something needs to be done, the common denominator though is PEOPLE, not dogs

Well people did breed pitbulls to attack bears and bulls on their faces and necks and not let go.

These dogs were much loved family pets, but they were super dangerous and turned on their family and now two children are dead.

I actually do think there should be much stricter rules around car ownership (but there would need to be major investment in public transport).

I don't think dogs should be banned. I am fed up with them constantly getting under my feet when I am out by owners who seem to think they should be able to take them everywhere, and having to sidestep all their shit, but then I am a cat person through and through (and no, my cats do not shit in other people's gardens - I have cat proofed my garden so they cannot get out as I don't believe cats should be able to roam any more than I believe dogs should be allowed in public off lead).

If a dog attacked me or people with me, I would try to use a item to block the dog from us.

And then people need to lower voices and try to talk in a normal calm way. No shouting, screaming, or movements, while backing away from the dog.

The simple answer with kids is don't buy dogs when children are under 12 yrs old. Don't have a dog, and invite the whole estate of kids for a party.

I have had dogs since my youngest was 2. Oldest was 4.

They have grown up with dogs and adore them. The dogs love them back.

We have hosted once birthday party at home, and the dogs where shut up in a different room during the time. For their safety and other kids safety.