5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

[eucalippy]

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you?

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

Too little exercise doesn’t sound stupid at all. It’s probably a major cause imo.

First of all, staffies and pit bulls do not lock their jaws.

Thank you - this is a popular misconception about bull terriers. They are just strong with very powerful jaws. But they can't lock them.

I agree re: dogs and their discomfort around children. The number FB videos I see with kids pulling on a dog which it obviously stressed - panting, turning away, slavering etc - and saying how good the dog is with the baby etc. These dogs are almost always massater-type dogs - mastiffs, bulldogs etc - with tremendously strong jaws. Either that or other powerful breeds like akitas, german shepherds etc

It's just looking for trouble.

So often in America the argument is that pitbulls who attack must have been trained to attack or have been mistreated but in reality many of the stories do not support that. The dogs have been loved by these families and well cared for and until the fatal attack, they had never seen aggression from the dogs that would make them concerned about having them as family pets.

If that's correct it is hugely concerning.

What an awful tragedy :(. That poor family.

Generally speaking, there seem to be 2 types of dog attack:

1. Defensive/fearful aggression, where the dog perceives a threat and feels forced to go on the offensive.

1. Prey driven aggression, where the dog sees a human/other animal as prey due to perceived weakness and/or behaviour (squealing/wriggling/crying/running).

Lots of "pitbull" attacks in the States seem to fall into the second category, where the victim is a young child, baby or elderly person. 100s of people are injured and killed every year, often just walking down their own street. I have watched loads of these attacks captured on cctv and have never, ever, seen the dogs being intimidated or antagonized into attacking. Usually, they appear from nowhere and are highly excited. The more the person fights back, the more ferociously they attack.

People seem to believe their dogs intrinsically understand that a baby is a small human and part of the family but that's making a huge assumption imo.

Bull breeds have been selected, over centuries, for "gameness": strength, tenacity, high pain threshold and willingness to fight/kill/take down large prey (bulls!!). Once they start, they do not stop. Dogs that give no warning before they attack are much more effective predators/fighters, making them difficult for your average person to read. They have huge jaws relative to the size of their head and their biting style is to hold and shake. This makes them far, far more dangerous than, say, a lab or a collie, which will usually bite and release. Comparing them to Chihuahuas or Shitzus is just laughable.

Unsuspecting families are being told they are "nanny dogs", a lie that seems to have originated with the breeder of the first Amstaff dogs, as a means of selling unwanted fighters. A man whose own dog mauled his young nephew to death.

I used to be staunchly anti BSL, and appreciate the difficulties in enforcing such legislation, but the reality is the gene pool of these dogs is fucked due to human stupidity and they are potentially extremely dangerous. Your average dog loving family (who may be completely clueluess about dogs) is just not equipped to handle them safely.

I get that pitbull is a difficult thing to define, but they do generally fall into a type. I think the UK system where you have to register the dog, keep it muzzled in public, and demonstrate you can care for it responsibly is a pretty good one. And should probably apply to a LOT more breeds.

I love dogs, but I think it would be best if certain breeds (the ones that frequently snap and kill or seriously maim people) were allowed to die out entirely.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you own any of the breeds above and have kids, 99% of the attacks are by the same breeds, again and again, terriers, its not rocket science is it?

Breed bred to kill , kills kids....How many gun dogs on the list ? I've yet to even hear about a Golden Retriever biting someone, never mind mauling some poor child.

No dog should be alone with a child under 12, ever, just as no child should be left alone in a house under 12 (in my opinion) . I own a dog and its a rule in our house.

This is heartbreaking to read. Almost all children, too. Dreadful.

Jack Russell kills baby

Sadly, it's only the size of the victims that means that there are very few deaths from JR attacks.

Tbh there needs to be licensing and rules brought in around owning breeds like this......and I know there's the usual ' my dog would never ' brigade. But the reality is they don't make good family pets. A dog of this breed doesn't just snap, it doesn't let go once it gets to the point of snapping.

This is a horrible story.

There is a woman locally who seems actually surprised that people avoid her as she walks her staffordshire bull terrier down the street. She insists her dog is nice and friendly, and seems offended that anyone could think otherwise- she is possibly good friends with the dog because humanity gives a wide berth! Madam, it's the dog, not you that people avoid!

A dog smaller than a rabbit is more than capable of killing a person. They have teeth that are sharp and all it takes is just one bite in the wrong place.
I don't understand why people keep saying "my dogs tiny so isn't capable"

They're all capable of attacking people and maiming and killing.

It is always bill breeds. Every. Single. Time. Pit bulls, American Bully's, Staffys etc. perhaps it's time to ban them.

XL Bullies have killed children in the UK this year. I looked them up at the time and simply couldn’t believe anyone would want a dog like that.

I agree. @StClare101 . I have had dogs all of my life - including staffies which are on the whole the most wonderful dogs - but the only dogs I am afraid of are these, and akitas.

Unpredictable, powerful, and impossible to stop if they decide to attack.

If you are in the UK, that dog shouldn't have been just leashed but also muzzled - and whether you are in the UK or not, you shouldn't have let the *rseholes touch him.

This list is hard to argue with.

Usually on these threads, all the owners of bully/staff/rottweilers rock up to insist that it's only bad owners that cause a dog to attack. And of course that's a factor; any dog has the capacity to snap and bite when it's stressed or mistreated.

However, time and time again it's the same dogs that are killing people. And there are plenty of experts saying that even with the best handling, these dogs are capable of launching an unprovoked attack because it's in their breeding and genes.

I'm a huge dog lover and I understand why people defend their "soppy" dogs to the hilt. But when you look at the heavy muscle of some of these breeds which are involved in fatal incidents, no one stands a chance if they DO turn. That's why I wouldn't have them in my home - they're too strong to fight off if they attack a child. Or an adult.

Incidentally, on these threads there are people talking about lots of bites from Labs. Obviously proportionately, there are tons more Labs as family pets so if this is true, it's perhaps not surprising. However, what is surprising is that the PSI of the jaw of a Lab is not much different to a pit bull or a staffy! Staffy and pit bulls have a psi of 235, while a Lab has a psi of 230. A PP also talked about how big and heavy her Lab is.

Given all of this, if Lab bites are so common, there should be a fair number of fatalities because their jaws are virtually the same as pit bulls, staffys etc. But there simply isn't. Some breeds are just more inclined to launch a full-on attack and won't back down. I had a quick search and I found one case in the US of a pure-bred Lab attacking a child fatally. One.

Owners absolutely contribute to the risk, but some breeds are just inherently more dangerous than others. And it's so frustrating that people aren't willing to accept what is so very clearly the case.

I found a list of breeds most likely to bite, fatal and not-fatal. It's a US site so the stats might be a bit different over here but it's interesting reading. It backs up lots of stories on here about Jack Russells being a problem!

Chihuahua
English Bulldog
Bulldog
Pit Bull
German Shepherd
Australian Shepherd
Lhasa Apso
Jack Russell Terrier
Cocker Spaniel
Bull Terrier
Pekingese
Papillion

This ridiculous anthropomorphism that many dog owners indulge in is harmful.

I blame Disney etc - dogs are not just little humans in fur coats.

God almighty!

That is the same weight as my daughter's great dane!

That dog must have been HUGE.

A child does not stand a chance against a rottweiler when it goes for them. Perhaps the same for an adult as well.

@oakleaffy equally many dogs are accused of being aggressive when they are only teaching another dog manners, sorting out minor differences, or even just playing (bitey face being a classic example. It looks AWFUL). I have Beagles, and beagles were bred to bark when excited, so that the huntsman could follow the hounds easily. The amount of people who think I have aggressive dogs is unreal, but it’s what people made them. I work with them daily to minimise it, but it’s never going to go away. It’s bred in.

Well said

Pit bulls are banned here (UK). I have a large dog, she's a Newfoundland. Although known for being fantastic with children, I would never leave her unaccompanied with a child or baby. Even when I had smaller dogs, would never do that, ever. I love had dogs for decades and at least two have been aggressive towards people. One a cocker spaniel, the other a Pug. It's pot luck what you end up with and I've been unlucky even with 'safe' breeds.

agree completely on everything you say.

I too have watched the YT videos, and the dog/s appear out of nowhere and attach to the leg of a child, or man or other dog, and it's completely unprovoked.

Police over there can shoot to kill which at least saves some lives when a Bull breed is charging someone with a view to latching on with bone-crushing/shaking jaws.

They are often allowed to stray, and have feckless owners who then whine when the dog is shot!.

A girl was killed at a rescue centre for these Pitbulls.

The completely unprovoked attack is alarming.

I hope these ''XL bullies will be banned.

There was what looked like a true Pitbull locally {UK} It's dimensions were different to a Staffie, the owner agreed it was a Pit, likely smuggled in.

I work with dangerous dogs.
Ive been attacked by many breeds, from tiny ones to big and everything inbetween. Only last week a golden retriever nearly took off my face.

But the only breeds that truly scare me are bull breeds. Unlike most dogs that go and then retreat, bull types seem to go and go and go. I once had one ramming it’s head into the door repeatedly trying to kill me, I’ve also witnessed one bend the bars of a crate trying to maul it’s own owner and so many lovely dogs torn apart by them in unprovoked attacks.

The vast majority we have euthanised for severe aggression are bull breeds. There are other common ones of course but it’s usually the same ‘type’. Regardless of the reason, the damage caused when it goes wrong is severe and horrific.

Something needs to be done but the breed apologists will never give up and accept the flaws of their breed like the rest of us do. I have a breed people don’t like and I would actively encourage people not to get one, calling a powerful dog bred to fight with a high prey drive and minimal body language signals a ‘nanny’ is horrendously irresponsible.

DS is crazy about dogs and he came to show me a "funny" dog video this morning.

I think this is the same dog, but the video he had was longer and had far more incidents. Basically it's an owner who thinks it's HILARIOUS that his chihuahua keeps snapping and biting.

I honestly have no idea what's entertaining about this. If this was a bull-type breed the potential consequences of this could be devastating. Absolutely not OK to mess around with a snappy dog like this, even if they are only small.....

I love dogs but would never have a pit bull or similar dog if I had young children. If children are allowed to pick and poke at them, dogs can and will at some point snap. A little Yorkshire terrier might leave a nip on the skin. A pit bull can rip off a very young child’s hand. The dogs must have been worked up by something. Can’t think that any breed of dog would randomly attack someone unless provoked in some way.