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Ukraine Invasion: Part 32

1000 replies

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 14:47

Gosh, that last one filled up quick! Welcome to 32, all πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
84
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 09/10/2022 14:20

β›“Mass arrests of military personnel have begun in Moscow β€” the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine.
As the Main Directorate of Intelligence noted, the elite russian guard units had entered the city

What does this statement mean from Ijsbears takeaways?
It sounds like the military in Moscow are staging a protest/coup and the elite guards are arresting them, have I got the wrong end of the stick?

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 09/10/2022 14:37

I'm assuming this paragraph from the thread reposted by Redtoothbrush covers the same ground:

Military forces around Moscow were brought on high alert, according to one version some military commanders were arrested, according to another no one was arrested and this was simply a test of readiness. The FSB is responsible for guarding the bridge.

So not mass arrests then?

Ijsbear · 09/10/2022 15:20

A lot of infighting.

It is possible the Ukrainian int is mistaken but so far they seem to have been pretty accurate.

MagicFox · 09/10/2022 15:22

@faytuks A senior Ukrainian official says that Ukraine’s intelligence services orchestrated the explosion on the Crimea bridge, using a bomb loaded onto a truck - NYT

twitter.com/faytuks/status/1579104991641731075?s=46&t=wmGHpRbBjW3BvZN3mRmcnA

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 16:20

Any thoughts on Putin calling a meeting of the Security Council on Monday? Do we think to try and take a bit of control back, to make an actual decision with consequences or to rearrange the deckchairs some more?

MagicFox · 09/10/2022 16:27

Probably all three. But these meetings are pretty frequent these days too. Constant cycle of stress isn't it!

OP posts:
miceonabranch · 09/10/2022 17:04

Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 16:20

Any thoughts on Putin calling a meeting of the Security Council on Monday? Do we think to try and take a bit of control back, to make an actual decision with consequences or to rearrange the deckchairs some more?

I'm really hoping that internal strife and conflict takes up their time and attention from now on. My biggest fear is that the poor Ukrainians are subjected to a chemical or nuclear attack. I can't imagine how much stress they're experiencing and having their children taken from them. I hope putin and his vile followers rot in hell. I hope he gives himself a brain haemorrhage through the stress of his rotten bridge being blown up.

notimagain · 09/10/2022 17:26

MagicFox · 09/10/2022 15:22

@faytuks A senior Ukrainian official says that Ukraine’s intelligence services orchestrated the explosion on the Crimea bridge, using a bomb loaded onto a truck - NYT

twitter.com/faytuks/status/1579104991641731075?s=46&t=wmGHpRbBjW3BvZN3mRmcnA

Might be true but I have to say even if President Zelensky has said that I'd still be using a pinch of salt, this still being an ongoing war, etc.

Mind you if the claim gets traction with the Russians people will be asking questions of those responsible for screening vehicles and those in their chain of command, and will probably mean any truck heading for the bridge will now be being stripped to the chassis before being allowed across.........all nicely disruptive.....

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2022 17:58

Michael MacKay AT mhmck
A TV tower is burning in Moscow.

Ukrainians call this the Eye of Sauron. They've long been referring to Russia as Mordor and Russian invaders as orcs.

^^

PerkingFaintly · 09/10/2022 18:03

Ooh, interesting.

There was a new poster on p3 of this thread who was pushing some standard Kremlin messaging we've seen before – but who caught my attention by including the unusual line "Russia/Putin is probably nuts".

Now there's been a thread by a Previously Banned Poster in which, before MNHQ zapped it, the PBP claimed that deals had been agreed by "Putin's likely successor." (Quoting from memory as thread gone, so apols if not exact.)

This is new.

For various reasons I think these posters are Russian in origin or at least specifically pro-Russia (rather then US Trumpies or whatever). However up till now, badmouthing Putin in any way has been a shibboleth for Russian messagers. They can't do it. It's life career-ending.

(They also aren't keen to discuss Chechnya, so you can usually catch them with that too.)

But now, overtly pro-Russian messagers criticising Putin and contemplating the death of the Emperor...

Wow-wee!

Caveat that I do not where these posters are coming from. This is uncharted territory!

miceonabranch · 09/10/2022 18:28

🀞 it's the beginning of the end

Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 18:33

I’m just not sure I can allow myself to believe it’s the end yet.

TargusEasting2 · 09/10/2022 18:38

@MagicFox @notimagain

I remain intrigued by the bridge mechanics and events. My initial thoughts were a truck bomb, carefully shaped. This was based on the visuals of the span and knowing what munitions can be made to do. When viewing the bridge footage, which looks like CCTV, but who knows, there is clearly a wave from the far side, which is the NW direction. And it really is from that edge of the bridge. That has been the prevailing wind down the Sea of Azov, but it is not a natural sea swell because the waves are mechanically induced. Something smaller hit the water initially, before the visible blast. Whether the smaller waves were caused by falling 'masonry' from an initial explosion or simply the prow of a boat - or anything else - I cannot ascertain. I remain open minded to the bridge itself being laid with charges.

I am also intrigued by the road span collapsing at two separate points, if there was one point of attack. This could simply be due to a pressure wave, or waves. More so, if poor quality materials - and this is a country where funds are diverted so entirely possible. It is the outer span that collapses (road in), the inner span did not (road out), but the rail line above caught fire due to the train being ignited. One road span not collapsing could simply be a red herring (and either way). The train was carrying either oil or chemicals/fertilisers (but could even be grain!) and likely went up from shrapnel which to me looked intense white and hot. Whatever was used to destroy the road bridge had a secondary purpose to hit the train line.

There are many uncertainties - other than the bridge was attacked from the NW, but I think it was meant to collapse entirely. My thoughts are that the following are relevant:

  • The direction of use of the prevailing wind to assist with overarching damage, including to the train above.
  • The truck, which at the time of explosion was above one of the 'span joints' (if that is the right term).
  • The explosion on, under, or within the bridge itself and the possibility that a joint 'over' and 'under' attack was meant to ensure the bridge came down.
  • The possible use of four key elements: two vehicles, the train, the 'boat'.
  • The timing of the attack which captured three elements - (1) the vehicle moving inwards (NW and right lane), (2) the 'boat' being on time as (3) the train was moving overhead. The 'boat' was the controlling entity here.

There is insufficient evidence of a second truck, other than military trucks on the outgoing side which I give would be Russian. If there was one, it could have been late or early (if).

I am coming down on the side this was a well planned Ukranian attack, possibly using several strategies. I do not put it beyond Russian infighting, but it does not feel like that yet.

Everything I say could be wrong.

The grid co-ords in my original post from yesterday from the sole picture evidence were 110 metres out, based on the Maxar pics. I positioned it to the edge of the 100 metre navigation channel, but it was a bit further SSW.

miceonabranch · 09/10/2022 18:38

Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 18:33

I’m just not sure I can allow myself to believe it’s the end yet.

The Russians are ruthless and aren't going to hang on to dead wood, which putin definitely is. He's clutching at straws by changing his military leaders. The kremlin officials, army commanders etc. know the war failure is down to their not so glorious leader. Something has to give.

notimagain · 09/10/2022 18:51

Hi @TargusEasting2

I am also intrigued by the road span collapsing at two separate points, if there was one point of attack.

On that specific point (which was bugging me) I've seen comment from those that seem to know about bridges that if one span gets a big jolt it's possible for the motion to be transmitted longitudinally through the deck and other spans can also end up being jolted off their piers.

If you look at the overhead views that were around today it actually appears a if a third span, a few hundred meters from the epicentre of all this, has also dropped slightly off it's pier - theory is the jolt through the structure shifted that one as well but at least one intervening span managed to hang on...

Wonder what state the rest of the structure is in?

notimagain · 09/10/2022 18:56

Re the third span, see still image at top of this report, bottom left hand corner

www.france24.com/en/europe/20221009-live-traffic-resumes-over-blast-hit-kerch-bridge-linking-crimea-and-russia

wonderfullife123 · 09/10/2022 19:15

Via Max Seddon : "Putin makes his first comments about the explosion on the bridge to Crimea. He says it's a "terrorist attack aimed at destroying critical Russian civilian infrastructure" and blames "Ukrainian secret services" for it."

twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579164370445094915?t=t8zcS9nE6k6RbgAe7pbXrA&s=19

Putin looks pretty ropy tbh.

Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 19:17

He looks terrible!

Igotjelly · 09/10/2022 19:18

Interesting calling it a terrorise attack, rather than an act of war.

TargusEasting2 · 09/10/2022 19:25

notimagain · 09/10/2022 18:56

Re the third span, see still image at top of this report, bottom left hand corner

www.france24.com/en/europe/20221009-live-traffic-resumes-over-blast-hit-kerch-bridge-linking-crimea-and-russia

Frustrating isn't it. One needs to know..... !!

What is your take on the munitions involved and the train being there? No need to answer of course. Who knows and all that....

miceonabranch · 09/10/2022 19:30

Ooo, he looks nicely agitated πŸ˜ƒ

Hancox432 · 09/10/2022 19:34

My guess would be it's his excuse to up the special operation to an anti terror operation. Which is essentially pretending to escalate without it actually meaning anything.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 09/10/2022 19:46

I can't really believe that a truck-bomb and a train could be so perfectly coordinated that they coincided exactly; that might work in a Modesty Blaise book but in Real Life it's a tremendous risk to try for something that precise.

MMBaranova · 09/10/2022 19:48

Putin's health.

It visibly oscillates. He has good and bad days. Good days might be after a hypodermic in the buttock. Just a thought.

>For various reasons I think these posters are Russian in origin or at least specifically pro-Russia

There are various categories.

One. Paid state agents. They sit in a building in St P or Yoshkar-Ola (or now perhaps WFH) and pump out the line. Y-O is scam central in Russia in the Mari El Republic.

Two. Patriotic Putinist Nationalists. They have bought into the dream and further their side, unpaid. Useful amplification for category one, often with variations in the text.

Three. Fellow Travellers and Useful Idiots. This category subdivides. Broadly there are two elements. One is the Pro element. They were / would have been pro-Soviet Union for ideological reasons and now sans ideology find that they are actually pro-Russian. Second, we have the Anti element. They are anti-Western in some way, whether it be anti-capitalist, environmentalist, anti-party in power or whatever. Their cause may well be laudable, but they cross the line into pro-Putinism because he's against what they are against. Or it seems that way. There are shades in-between the pros and the antis.

Four. Players and dabblers. They are just messing around, being contrary, which online forums allow you to do, until banned.

MMBaranova · 09/10/2022 19:54

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

>I can't really believe that a truck-bomb and a train could be so perfectly coordinated that they coincided exactly

Had it stopped there? If it wasn't in motion, it is easier.

However, there's a timetable for trains crossing the bridge (and presumably extra freight runs slotted in the gaps). You confirm that the freight train with its flammable cargo is on its way and ensure that you detonate the [whatever - truck, or set charges, or something else] when they are level.

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