Another black rapper dead

[PatricksRum]

When are we going to address the poor life expectancy for black men?

When are we going to address the poor outcomes for black women during childbirth?

What can be done?

Your point about outcomes for black women during pregnancy and childbirth is a very important one.

Its utterly muddled on this thread because you've led with a title about rappers and most of your post is a list of American musicians - the US male celebrity rappers are definitely going to distract attention away from the anonymous ordinary black UK women. This is a UK site so it's fair to assume a post solely about America would acknowledge that focus.

Right but the average life expectancy for black people here is longer than white people, so by that argument the inequality is going the other way?

Racism? Being concerned about young white girls being trafficked by Asian gangs is racism? And the authorities being too scared to do anything because they will be accused of being ‘racist’?

You're not wrong about the health problems of black men in the USA. But your choice of rappers to illustrate that is methodologically disastrous.

If I listed members of the UK punk, New Wave and New Romantic scene who'd died non-violent deaths you'd see a list of (almost all white) people dying at depressingly young ages of cancer, heart attacks, drug overdoses. You could draw terrible conclusions about the health of white British people in general or of musicians in particular. The reason you'd see that, and nobody dying peacefully in their bed at 90 surrounded by great-grandchildren, is that they haven't had time to die of old age.

It's the same for rappers: even the late lamented Gil Scott Heron would only be in his early seventies if he was still alive. If you want to draw conclusions about general life trends from a subset of celebrities then you need to use a sector that's existed in large and steady numbers pre-1950. Try jazz or blues,

It doesn't help anyone to shout racism every time social problems that affect one group more than another is mentioned.

Same for a lot of the (working class) men in my family. Jobs (and some lifestyles) that have very likely contributed to their deaths (pre 55). Those with more ‘white collar jobs’ all lived longer.

We can’t keep pulling up stats from America/South America and taking this as what’s happening here.

@lannistunut It covers all causes.

I must have misunderstood the meaning of 'selected causes' then.

There are two separate things here.

One is related to the lifestyle of rappers and one is related to the lifestyle of young black men living in cities.

And then there is the overall point of life expectancy of black men and women.

What you should do is look at life expectancy compared to a comparative group. If you look at life expectancy for men who work in hedonistic industries then then there is a problem overall for both black and white. If you look at socio-economic issues though you probably will see differences and thats where problems become much more apparent. You should be looking at like for like and how young black man in cities have particular problems. Because that identifies the actual problem.

Pointing out that black rappers die early ends up being selective anecdotal nonsense. Given when then genre started, it's quite difficult for them to have reached normal life expectancy. So all that is reported is those who die prematurely because the others haven't died yet!

Yes there is a problem. No this isn't the way that conclusively shows it.

This isnt racist. This is pointing out that you need to demonstrate the point in a scientific way. You need to show like for like comparison or ask questions about overlooked / missing data. Because that's what is meaningful and useful and can be acted on.

Keith Richards
Mick Jagger
David Bowie...

...i think perhaps you need to do a little more thinking!!!

I can't tag everyone who has disagreed with me, so picking on this to demonstrate the issue. One is related to the lifestyle of rappers and one is related to the lifestyle of young black men living in cities.

The issue being that people thing young black rappers are somehow not young black men who were young black boys in black households?! Structural inequalities don't stop because you make money, or because you choose a certain lifestyle. That's why they're structural!!!!

And on the whataboutery - what the fuck has the sex abuse of young white girls in Rotherham got to do with the death of young black men?! It's possible to care about more than one thing.

And even where there are direct comparisons eg life expectancy of black people in the U.K., yes it's still racism if young black men are dying disproportionately. To say it isn't is like saying 'but men have a lower life expectancy' when we talk about female victims of male violence, childbirth, female specific cancers with slow detection.

Also, the life expectancy thing people are trotting out is U.K. specific. The world is a tad bigger than that - look at the stats in the US as a start, where much of this culture is central.

@RedToothBrush

I said black men white women that I know personally who are long term drug users haven’t got past 60

I don’t know any multi multi millionaire musicians as I don’t mix in those circles but I would imagine that if they do take drugs they have much better access to rehab and help than your average person

And isn’t David Bowie dead

This is a US issue, nothing to do with the UK. Why do you think US issues are for the world to solve?

Black women do have a higher mortality rate in childbirth in this country though, that should be addressed.

Why did Amy Winehouse George Michael Ellis die? All were young.

Elvis.

I'm not talking about white people.

I'm talking about worse outcomes for black people.

.......but statistically black people have longer life expectancy so what are you talking about

Black women who give birth and black male rappers are two entirely different Entities and have no correlation with each other

And yet again we have a thread full of white people making themselves the victims.

The picture contained just a few examples.

I notice how the whataboutery posters have conveniently missed out the part about black women dying in labour.

If they're all caused by drugs then why are they turning to drugs?

OP, where are your actual references regarding these claims?

Plenty of white rockstars also died from drug use. Rap culture is vile, drugs, gangs, pimping and prostitution, I wouldn’t care if they all died young in all honesty.

If they're all caused by drugs then why are they turning to drugs?

Probably for the same reason the too long to mention list of white musicians who died young did.

Patrick I feel you would have got a much better response if you had decoupled the two points into two separate threads and not lead with the rapper issue.

Black women's experience of maternity services in the UK is clearly an issue, and one which people can identify with.

Black rappers (I don't even know if they are UK or USA based?) dying seems very disconnected from black women's NHS experiences to me. I also don't think that USA issues should be conflated with UK ones. Yes of course there is overlap, but they aren't the same and surely should be treated separately, even if learning from one another?

Wtf are you talking about?
Many people have pointed out to you that black people have longer life expectancy than white.
Are you meaning to start a thread about maternity services, if so, why are you talking about a middle aged man and random list of male celebrities?