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Ukraine Invasion: Part 31

995 replies

MagicFox · 22/09/2022 06:51

31st thread, welcome all and thanks as usual.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
53
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 25/09/2022 22:43

Guardian confirms NASAMS delivery:

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has also said that Ukraine has received NASAMS (National Advance Surface-to-Air Missile Systems) air defence missiles from the US in a TV interview. Zelenskiy thanked Joe Biden and confirmed that they now have the systems in Ukraine. The Pentagon said ten days ago that two systems were due to be delivered. However he said he needed more to protect Ukrainian citizens.

shreddednips · 25/09/2022 23:00

asblindasabat · 25/09/2022 22:09

I haven’t read this entire thread so apologies if my question has already been asked and answered.

At the start of this invasion, way back in February, I was very anxious that Russia would start attacking other countries in Europe but my anxiety of that seemed to ease over time as it didn’t appear to be as serious anymore (obviously serious for the people in Ukraine)

but now with the news of mobilisation in Russia, I have heard that the West is being threatened again. Is the media just exaggerating or should we be worried again?

Overall, I think the risk of Russia deciding to detonate a lower-yield nuclear weapon in Ukraine is probably higher than it was, but I still think it's unlikely. It would be a huge risk for Russia because it would risk confrontation with NATO, and secondly, it would risk the relationship with China. I can't see any reason why Putin would suddenly decide to attack the west from nowhere- what could be gained? Although the heightened tension needs to be carefully managed to avoid inadvertently starting a conflict.

I read a very interesting commentary on a study performed to analyse Russian nuclear deterrence and strategy. I've attached the link, as it's quite helpful for making sense of the recent rhetoric- although it's uncomfortable reading in parts. However, the part that interested me the most was the discussion of nuclear threats. The authors say that part of Russia's deterrence strategy is to make nuclear threats quite early in a conflict in order to create the impression that it has a significantly lower threshold for nuclear use than it does in reality- to attempt to scare an adversary into backing down or deter other countries from getting involved. The authors also disagreed with the idea that 'escalate to deescalate' was part of Russian nuclear strategy and that Russia doesn't have an over-optimistic view of the potential success of using nuclear weapons in such a way.

If the authors are right, then what Putin is saying is probably to be expected. I think it should be taken seriously and handled carefully but (just my opinion) I don't think we should be feeling too frightened.

https://warontherocks.com/2022/09/escalation-management-and-nuclear-employment-in-russian-military-strategy-2/?__s=a5dzvtrsk4er4amzsdnj

BreadInCaptivity · 25/09/2022 23:30

MissConductUS · 25/09/2022 21:51

There are unconfirmed reports that the American NASAMS air defense systems have arrived in Ukraine. If so, that's a big enhancement to their air defenses and should prove helpful in stopping the missile attacks.

Great article from the Telegraph.

What are the capabilities of these weapons?

Apologies but I'm unaware of the acronym.

minsmum · 25/09/2022 23:53

Reports of demonstrators burning portraits of Putin in Dagestan

MissConductUS · 26/09/2022 00:58

BreadInCaptivity · 25/09/2022 23:30

What are the capabilities of these weapons?

Apologies but I'm unaware of the acronym.

It's an air defense missile system that was jointly developed by Raytheon and a Norwegian firm. NASAMS is the acronym for National/Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. It can detect incoming targets 120km away and engage them at 50km. It's the air defense system that currently protects Washington, DC. So it's top of the range.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS

notimagain · 26/09/2022 07:12

What are the capabilities of these weapons?

You're obviously (?) not going to get full details, you're going to get broad brush figures.

There's also the issue that with missile systems that figures such as maximum ranges that you see quoted in the press and elsewhere can be very very dependent on things like the geometry of the engagement, size of target (things like radar cross section) and a whole stack of other variables so they're indicative rather than absolute....they'll will also obviously be fudged for security purposes anyway.

That said NASAMs is definitely a good system to have....

OwlsDance · 26/09/2022 07:30

A guy in far East Russia opened fire at military unit manager. He's badly wounded, the shooter has been arrested. This is just the start.

Ijsbear · 26/09/2022 08:07

www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-september-25

Special ISW release:

Summary: This mobilization will not affect the course of the conflict in 2022 and may not have a very dramatic impact on Russia’s ability to sustain its current level of effort into 2023. The problems undermining Putin’s effort to mobilize his people to fight, finally, are so deep and fundamental that he cannot likely fix them in the coming months—and possibly for years. Putin is likely coming up against the hard limits of Russia’s ability to fight a large-scale war.

Other than that, minor Ukr gains, Iranian drones possibly hit a command post in Odesa (the Ru claim they did, the Ukr are not commenting)

+++

⚡️Ukrainian Air Force destroys 8 Russian combat drones on Sept. 25
Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ignat reported that the Ukrainian military is studying the strengths and weaknesses of Iranian Shahed-136 drones.

Meduza: Russia to ban men of conscription age from leaving country on Sept.
(kyivindependent.com/news-feed/meduza-russia-to-ban-men-of-conscription-age-to-leave-country-on-sept-28)28 (kyivindependent.com/news-feed/meduza-russia-to-ban-men-of-conscription-age-to-leave-country-on-sept-28)
According to Russian media outlet Meduza, the ban will come into effect after the end of sham referenda in the four occupied regions of Ukraine.

⚡️Russian-installed proxies in Crimea say Moscow completed mobilization in occupied peninsula.

⚡️Russia keeps 2,500 Ukrainian POWs
Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk told BBC that Russia holds civilians alongside the military. Russians didn't agree to free civilians during the latest prisoner swap.

⚡️Mobilization sparks protests in Russia's Dagestan.

⚡️Zelensky: Ukraine receives NASAMS missiles from US.

⚡️Minister: Serbia won’t recognize Russian annexation ‘referendums’ in occupied Ukrainian areas.
Serbian Foreign Minister Nikola Selakovic said that Serbia, a country considered a close ally of Russia, would comply with international law and the UN Charter.

⚡️Bloomberg: White House warns Russia of ‘catastrophic consequences’ if it uses nukes.
U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said that President Joe Biden’s administration had privately communicated with the Kremlin regarding the “decisive” response of the U.S. and other Western allies if Russia uses nuclear weapons.
“We have been clear and specific about what that will entail,” Sullivan said.
The U.S. has made it clear to Russia that the consequences of using nuclear weapons would be “horrific.”

⚡️General Staff: Russia sends newly mobilized conscripts directly to frontline.
Conscripts do not undergo any military training before being sent to the war against Ukraine, Ukraine's General Staff said.
With this step, Russian military commanders aim to replenish units that have suffered colossal losses.
[Jesus wept, just what chance do they have? Putin needs a fucking straitjacket]

⚡️ Minister: About 1.5 million Ukrainians in Russia unable to return home, contact relatives.
Olha Stefanishyna, Ukraine’s deputy prime minister for European integration, said that about 1.5 million Ukrainian citizens, mostly women and children, are currently in Russia without the possibility of returning home, and their relatives can’t contact them.

⚡️ Ukrainian forces destroy 5 ammunition depots in southern Ukraine.

💡The number of opponents of aid to Ukraine is increasing in the U.S. Congress amid the midterm elections — The Wall Street Journal

Putin's regime is weakening, so he is intensifying the conflict, and we can expect an escalation of aggression shortly — Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki

❤️ Mariana Mamonova, a medic released from Russian captivity, who had been defending Mariupol, gave birth to a baby on the morning of September 25
A healthy baby girl was born.

🛢 Greece cut imports of Russian gas by half

📌 Russians threaten with deportation if one refuses to vote in a pseudo-referendum — the mayor of Melitopol Ivan Fedorov

📌Georgia plans to close borders with Russia for men from Monday
“Unfortunately, the citizens of the Russian Federation lack the courage, as you said, to protest and change their regime. They better run…” she added, commenting on the huge queues at the Russian-Georgian border.

📷It is reported that in the photo, the border service of Kazakhstan detained Russians who were trying to illegally cross the border.

⚡️Ukraine received 2 batteries of the NASAMS air defense system from the United States, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with CBS

⚡️ Western countries have frozen Russian assets worth between $300 and $500 billion

🚘 Mazda plans to halt production in Russia.

✈️
"Be Brave Like Kharkiv" is the first of 10 Antonov Airlines aircraft that took to the skies

⚡️The Ukrainian IT Army hacked the Internet resources of the Young Guard of United Russia
All the personal data ended up in the hands of Ukrainian IT people.
The so-called Young Guard helps to cover up war crimes and hold illegal referendums on Russian-occupied Ukrainian land.

🚲 The Netherlands will donate 2,000 bicycles to Ukraine
They will be sent to doctors, social workers, and volunteers who help the population in the de-occupied territories. This is reported by the Stichting Zeilen van Vrijheid Foundation. [how very Dutch]

‼️ Russia attacked the Odesa region with kamikaze drones at night
One drone was destroyed, two hit a Ukrainian military infrastructure facility – a large-scale fire and ammunition detonation began, and the authorities organized the evacuation of civilians. [damn!]

[the Telegram channels occasionally post clips of the most beautiful soldier-violinist. Absolutely haunting, and all in the middle of war]

High levels of troop losses and no less than 4 helicopters + 1 plane.

Presumably the troop losses will increase in the coming weeks and months.

(the ducklings made it through the night. Put 'em by my bed and could hear them peeping all night. Usually they are under a special warming plate now but for the photo I winkled them out)

Ukraine Invasion: Part 31
Ukraine Invasion: Part 31
Ukraine Invasion: Part 31
OwlsDance · 26/09/2022 09:17

Oh my, they are so very cute 😍

Igotjelly · 26/09/2022 09:19

Breaking News on BBC of a school shooting in central Russia.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/09/2022 09:27

@Ijsbear · Today 08:07

Thank you, Ijsbear.
^Russia attacked the Odesa region with kamikaze drones at night
One drone was destroyed, two hit a Ukrainian military infrastructure facility – a large-scale fire and ammunition detonation began, and the authorities organized the evacuation of civilians. [damn!]^

That is a blow.

OwlsDance · 26/09/2022 09:37

How awful. Those poor kids.

OwlsDance · 26/09/2022 10:05

261k reportedly left Russia since 21 September. I think that's pretty realistic figure.

10k crossed border with Finland over the first 2 days. There's 9k in Western Kazakhstan, people sleeping in empty theatres.

Once they annex the Ukraine regions, Putin will declare martial law so they better be quick!

OwlsDance · 26/09/2022 10:40

2 more mass graves discovered near Izyum

blueshoes · 26/09/2022 10:46

@Ijsbear love your fluffy new arrivals.

Minister: About 1.5 million Ukrainians in Russia unable to return home, contact relatives.
Olha Stefanishyna, Ukraine’s deputy prime minister for European integration, said that about 1.5 million Ukrainian citizens, mostly women and children, are currently in Russia without the possibility of returning home, and their relatives can’t contact them.

This is so horrific. Were they kidnapped or forcibly deported from cities like Mariupol. Why can't they return home? I hope the mothers were not separated from their children - that does not bear thinking.

Ijsbear · 26/09/2022 11:09

There are instances of that yes blueshoes.

Horrific.

2 more mass graves discovered near Izyum Not unexpected, but oh no.

Igotjelly · 26/09/2022 11:17

I dread to think what they'll find if they ever manage to liberate Mariupol.

EmeraldShamrock1 · 26/09/2022 11:33

The photos of the prisoners really hit hard.

I can't imagine what happened to those kidnapped who dared defiance against the Russian soldiers.

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2022 11:39

Igotjelly · 26/09/2022 09:19

Breaking News on BBC of a school shooting in central Russia.

This story is going to blow up:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63032790

One local MP said the attacker - named as Artem Kazantsev- had been armed with two pistols.

A video posted online by the investigative committee shows the gunman lying dead on the floor wearing a T-shirt with a Nazi symbol and a balaclava. Investigators are searching his place of residence.

Igotjelly · 26/09/2022 11:44

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2022 11:39

This story is going to blow up:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63032790

One local MP said the attacker - named as Artem Kazantsev- had been armed with two pistols.

A video posted online by the investigative committee shows the gunman lying dead on the floor wearing a T-shirt with a Nazi symbol and a balaclava. Investigators are searching his place of residence.

In what way? Do we think there is any chance of it being a false flag type situation?

prettybird · 26/09/2022 11:54

My first thought - sadly - is that whatever the background to this very sad event - is that the Russians will say the Ukrainians were responsible, ie that there would be a false flag attribution Sad

It's too "useful" for the Russians not to, given the partial mobilisation Hmm

Ijsbear · 26/09/2022 11:56

yeah they'll blame the Ukrainians.

Thereisnolight · 26/09/2022 12:01

.

RedToothBrush · 26/09/2022 12:04

Igotjelly · 26/09/2022 11:44

In what way? Do we think there is any chance of it being a false flag type situation?

No idea. But a shooting with Nazi gear being apparently found does suggest it will be used to try and aid recruitment / kill descent.

Its too easy, not to.

PerkingFaintly · 26/09/2022 12:30

According to the current Beeb article linked, the gunman has been identified as a former pupil at the school.

I think that will make it harder for the Russian authorities to blame Ukraine – though obviously they'll happily suppress that detail (if proven true) to make the story work.

It's looking like a standard, horrific school shooting.Sad