Page 5 | ‘Beaten by a girl’. How offensive is this?

Noteverybodylives · 17/09/2022 11:00

The obvious implication is that the speaker believes boys are superior to girls and should always outperform them

I agree.

It sounds like OP and her DH also think like this which is why they’re struggling to understand it too.

I do actually think the punishment is too harsh and it’s better to be educated than punished.

But statements like this are thrown around a lot and it’s this underlying misogyny that causes so many men to grow up having sexist views.

MargotChateau · 17/09/2022 11:03

I’m not sure how you identify as a feminist but then don’t see the harm in what your son said and haven’t explained to your son yourself why what he said wasn’t okay.

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 17/09/2022 11:04

To assume that the word 'girl' is equally insulting as the word 'black' is disingenuous.
Seriously? It's in the context. If they see girl as a inferior sex to boys, then it's as insulting as comparing white people and black people, and treating black people as inferior race.

LuciferRising · 17/09/2022 11:05

Your son is probably aware of this and is used to competing among his male peers.

I really don't think there is much difference at this age. My daughter can certainly compete with boys her age at martial arts. The difference come in later as far as I am aware. Let's hope this attitude doesn't teach boys they are superior.

Octomore · 17/09/2022 11:09

Competitions don't tend to be sex-segregated at age 9. So no, he probably isn't used to only competing with male peers.

Far more likely that he has simply picked up on the misogynist ideas that society throws at him every single day. Not his fault, but he needs to learn it's not OK.

Helgadaley · 17/09/2022 11:27

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 17/09/2022 11:04

To assume that the word 'girl' is equally insulting as the word 'black' is disingenuous.
Seriously? It's in the context. If they see girl as a inferior sex to boys, then it's as insulting as comparing white people and black people, and treating black people as inferior race.

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,
Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves? To insist that men and women are completely equal is a false premise. Generally speaking, women are smaller and physically weaker. That may have been the point that the boy was making. No need to blow it up into such a drama.

PugInTheHouse · 17/09/2022 11:38

I am so confused, why would you feel triumphant if it was said to you? It is only ever used as an insult. Definitely doesn't deserve a big punishment though.

howaboutchocolate · 17/09/2022 11:42

Helgadaley · 17/09/2022 11:27

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,
Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves? To insist that men and women are completely equal is a false premise. Generally speaking, women are smaller and physically weaker. That may have been the point that the boy was making. No need to blow it up into such a drama.

Show quote history

Women and girls have been bought and sold as slaves, sex workers, young brides, throughout history.

Women have been treated as inferior and inhumanely in almost every human culture.

Threelittlelambs · 17/09/2022 11:44

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,
Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves

Woman may not have been sold as slaves but they have for years been treated as slaves, considered insane if pregnant before marriage - men nothing - work? low paid menial jobs? Still fighting for equal pay, still have more males in top jobs, years ago woman couldn’t have their own bank accounts, couldn’t go to school, you name it - history is all there.

They may have been treated better than black people, but it’s still wasn’t equal or fair.

JazbayGrapes · 17/09/2022 11:51

what is the punishment? how does he react to it?
does he understand why it was wrong to say what he said?

Helgadaley · 17/09/2022 11:55

Threelittlelambs · 17/09/2022 11:44

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,
Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves

Woman may not have been sold as slaves but they have for years been treated as slaves, considered insane if pregnant before marriage - men nothing - work? low paid menial jobs? Still fighting for equal pay, still have more males in top jobs, years ago woman couldn’t have their own bank accounts, couldn’t go to school, you name it - history is all there.

They may have been treated better than black people, but it’s still wasn’t equal or fair.

I can see that, but the world has never been equal and fair. Yes, things are better now than in the past, at least in western societies, but my point is that a remark by a child, probably made on the spur of the moment and without any sense of insulting anyone, has generated such an extreme reaction from the school. A quiet word would have been enough.
It was treated as seriously as a racist remark would have been, which I think is an overreaction.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 12:11

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,

Bollocks.

Of course racist and sexist comments should be treated the same.

Emanresu9 · 17/09/2022 12:14

I can’t believe you describe yourself as a feminist and can’t see why this is offensive.

what a nasty, misogynistic phrase. I’d be gutted if my son said this and even more gutted if he couldn’t understand how offensive it was.

the implication being girls are weak, slow, and that being beaten by one is embarrassing. Would he say “ha ha you let a black boy beat you”? Or “oh my gosh even someone Chinese is better than you”

im glad that girls don’t have to listen to this shit anymore. And if your son thinks a 9 yR old girl is any less dexterous than a 9yr old boy you need to educate him.

Andromachehadabadday · 17/09/2022 12:33

Helgadaley · 17/09/2022 11:27

What nonsense. Of course it's worse to be openly racist. Black people have historically been treated inhumanely in almost all sections of society,
Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves? To insist that men and women are completely equal is a false premise. Generally speaking, women are smaller and physically weaker. That may have been the point that the boy was making. No need to blow it up into such a drama.

Show quote history

Women and girls have been sold as slaves for as long as there’s been slavery.

Women and girls and still sold into slavery now.

Women and girls have been treated as domestics slaves, even when technically not slaves.

Why are we pretending slavery only involved enslaving men?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 12:42

Women and girls have been sold as slaves for as long as there’s been slavery.

Including modern contexts - women and girls trafficked for sexual exploitation by men - often held as slaves, their identity papers stolen, raped and the profits of this stolen.

Shamoo · 17/09/2022 12:43

“Since when were girls and women bought and sold as slaves?”

You know about sex trafficking, right?!?!

Andromachehadabadday · 17/09/2022 12:51

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 12:42

Women and girls have been sold as slaves for as long as there’s been slavery.

Including modern contexts - women and girls trafficked for sexual exploitation by men - often held as slaves, their identity papers stolen, raped and the profits of this stolen.

Absolutely. It’s really important for people to realise that slavery has a long history AND is happening today.

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear. That’s why I stated women and girls are still be sold now.

There seems to a huge amount of misinformation about slavery, including the assumption that it no longer exists and I think it’s a dangerous narrative.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 13:13

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear. That’s why I stated women and girls are still be sold now.

You were perfectly clear. I meant to back you up but I now realise it looks like I was correcting you. Sorry!

Andromachehadabadday · 17/09/2022 13:20

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 13:13

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear. That’s why I stated women and girls are still be sold now.

You were perfectly clear. I meant to back you up but I now realise it looks like I was correcting you. Sorry!

Ohh hahaha lol we keep crossing wires. 😂

latetothefisting · 17/09/2022 13:58

OP not sure if you're coming back to the thread but it's not clear what your AIBU was?
if it was 'was the punishment too harsh' I don't think so, it's not a good thing to say. as pp's have said, if he'd mocked his friends for being beaten by a black child presumably you'd have accepted that deserved punishment. Plus although you say it's the worse punishment the school has (which can't be right as presumably they can suspend/exclude/expel kids), take it into proportion, it's not as though he's going to have to disclose his primary school 'permanent record' when he applies for uni or his first job, is he?

If your AIBU was that the school should have explained why he was being punished and why what he said was so wrong, then actually I agree with you - because he has clearly picked that up from somewhere, and 2 of the biggest influences in a 9 y/o life are school and home. So if he picked it up from school in which case they should be interrogating that, and working out if the whole class needs some input on gender equality (obvs in an age appropriate way), or if there's something about the way they've been taught previously that has led the class to believe boys are better than girls. Or, if he had picked it up at home, even if via the type of TV or media he consumes rather than directly from parents, there is a higher chance the parents would agree with what he'd said, and wouldn't be able to explain why it was wrong (I know this is not the case with you), which makes it even more important that the school teaches him! Otherwise how is he going to learn?

Cillery · 17/09/2022 14:22

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 12:42

Women and girls have been sold as slaves for as long as there’s been slavery.

Including modern contexts - women and girls trafficked for sexual exploitation by men - often held as slaves, their identity papers stolen, raped and the profits of this stolen.

I do hope all those who are making a fuss about women and girls being sold as slaves are actually doing something about it rather than just talking about it. There are an awful lot of charities where you can sponsor children to get them out of slavery situations and I would recommend everyone on here who is disgusted at children being held in forced labour to sponsor a child

Cillery · 17/09/2022 14:30

MargotChateau · 17/09/2022 11:03

I’m not sure how you identify as a feminist but then don’t see the harm in what your son said and haven’t explained to your son yourself why what he said wasn’t okay.

I’m a feminist yet I do not see the lasting ‘harm’ in a nine-year-old boy making an ignorant statement which nine-year-old boys have done since Adam and Eve. I far more see the harm in the teacher using their position to bully children for not knowing what is politically correct. What if the girl had of said ‘fancy being beaten by a boy’? Would the teacher have reacted like this? The teacher seems to have all the sensitivity of a sledgehammer and zero understanding of children. If I was the parent I’d be up to the school and demand my child be removed from the care of that teacher because they are a danger. What was needed was that the child was talked to and shown why what he said was inappropriate. Now at the age of nine he might not have the cognitive facility to quite grasp why. I might have recommended he sees a film at the Bridge to Terabithia which has a boy beaten by a girl. Else this boy is just going to grow up resentful of feminism with a bad memory that sticks in his mind. Like kids in any generation who were punished for things they didn’t understand why.

Newuser82 · 17/09/2022 14:33

I've actually just asked my own 9 year old son if he or his friends would ever say "you were beaten by a girl!". He straight away said "no because that would be sexist." I wasn't sure what his opinion would be but I'm glad to know he understands.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/09/2022 14:42

I do hope all those who are making a fuss about women and girls being sold as slaves are actually doing something about it rather than just talking about it. There are an awful lot of charities where you can sponsor children to get them out of slavery situations and I would recommend everyone on here who is disgusted at children being held in forced labour to sponsor a child

There certainly are. Which ones do you give to?

RedToothBrush · 17/09/2022 14:54

Trainfromredhill · 17/09/2022 07:49

DS (9) came home in tears from school yesterday having been given the worst punishment the school has (goes on his record)for saying this in a science class to a male classmate after a dexterity experiment in which said classmate was ‘beaten by a girl’. DS still has no idea why he shouldn’t have said it.
I’m a feminist. DH is extremely supportive. If this was said to me I’d feel triumphant. I’m struggling with the harshness of the punishment and that DS obviously hasn’t been given an age appropriate explanation. Thoughts?

I find this interesting.

I have made a point, when DS has said similar, that it's not OK. It's sexist.

Its come from school. And it's interesting where its come from. It's come from parents who say it. And don't see anything wrong with it.

Part of the problem here, is precisely because YOU don't see the problem and are questioning the punishment. It's infuriating. Especially when you end up on the receiving end of it from a young child. It is teaching disrespect to girls and women is ok. I absolutely won't tolerate it, and I don't have a high opinion of parents who do.

Girls suffer massively with confidence, in ways boys don’t. Because they are told from an early age that they come second to boys. And they are physically weaker. This isn't ok.

YOU are part of the problem here.

Girls and boys have individual strengths and weaknesses. Normalising the idea that girls are inferior sets up certain behaviour patterns. It's the root of toxic masculinity, which also isn't good for boys. The physical differences at that age are minimal too. Before puberty it doesn't exist.

It's a put down to bully. And it's sexist to boot.