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Original poster

‘Beaten by a girl’. How offensive is this?

160 replies

Trainfromredhill · 17/09/2022 07:49

DS (9) came home in tears from school yesterday having been given the worst punishment the school has (goes on his record)for saying this in a science class to a male classmate after a dexterity experiment in which said classmate was ‘beaten by a girl’. DS still has no idea why he shouldn’t have said it.
I’m a feminist. DH is extremely supportive. If this was said to me I’d feel triumphant. I’m struggling with the harshness of the punishment and that DS obviously hasn’t been given an age appropriate explanation. Thoughts?

OP posts:
Beamur · 17/09/2022 10:11

Sexism starts early.
I'm glad this school is standing up for girls.
This kind of comment is exactly where misogyny begins.

hewouldwouldnthe · 17/09/2022 10:11

Trainfromredhill · 17/09/2022 07:57

No, but he’s pretty competitive, so if he’d won (or lost 😂) he would have made a fuss.
he’s been severely punished for something and he doesn’t even know why.

As a feminist you should explain it to him then?

Suedomin · 17/09/2022 10:13

It depends how he said it. If he didn't know her name and just said beaten by a girl fine. If he was saying it in a derogatory way it's not fine.
But either way I don't think Draconian punishment is the answer. That would just make him resentful and it won't help him to understand why it could be inappropriate. Instead perhaps some awareness raising by the school is needed and discussion about language etc.
He is only 9 and feeling his way in the world. I wouldn't be happy with that reaction by the school

Octomore · 17/09/2022 10:15

Nothingbuttheglory · 17/09/2022 07:54

The obvious implication is that the speaker believes boys are superior to girls and should always outperform them 🙄

This. It's not hard to figure out what the implications are.

He viewed being beaten by a girl as somehow worse than being beaten by a boy.

shiningstar2 · 17/09/2022 10:15

This seems like cracking a nut with a sledge hammer. He's 9. He didn't know why it was wrong. Why couldn't the teacher have explained why it was wrong them said ok do you know why it's wrong now. If Ds had said yes she could have said right you will now stay in at lunchtime and write me out an essay showing why this was wrong. End of. If he had argued about it not being wrong after it was explained to him he/she could them have taken it further. Why behin with the harshest punishment for a 9 year old. I doubt this issue has come up in his life before this. If the teacher had explained why it was wrong in front of the whole class others there would have learnt something important they maybe hadn't considered before and the punishment of a lost lunchtime would have reinforced the message. When she got the essay returned she could check that he really had taken in why his comment was wrong.

midgetastic · 17/09/2022 10:17

If he has said beaten by Jane there would be no problem

But to be upset because it was any girl - a nameless member of that category- it dehumanises Jane , it implies that no girl should have been able to beat him - that being a girl is enough to make them inferior

At 9 I would expect better

Octomore · 17/09/2022 10:20

FreddyHG · 17/09/2022 09:52

In an activity where biology has an advantage then what he said is absolutely fine. He would expect to always beat the girl because as Mumsnet knows biology matters. If a man lost to a woman in let's say tennis then again that same phrase is acceptable. They should always beat the female because of biological advantage. So dexterity test maybe a bit borderline and not ok. Most sports definitely ok.

It's simply not true that every man can expect to beat all women in sport.

The average man will beat the average women at a physical sport, sure, but a mediocre man can be beaten by a high performing woman.

Most men would be annihilated by Serena Williams at tennis, despite the fact that Serena herself would be beaten by the majority of professional male players.

Regardless, crowing about how supposedly humiliating it is to be 'beaten by a girl' is misogynist.

surreygirl1987 · 17/09/2022 10:23

You're a feminist and you don't find this offensive?! It is obviously suggesting that girls are inferior. I'd be delighted if this was taken seriously in my school. You should be too!

Catapultaway · 17/09/2022 10:24

Boomboom22 · 17/09/2022 08:03

I think if you were a feminist you would have blown your top at him saying this, I have been known to go mental at mine for this sort of sexism, it's insidious. What you are really saying is he should have been better at science and he is fine to be upset that a mere artsy girl beat him. He actually said that out loud in class!! Replace girl with black and you see the issue?

There does seem to be a trend with 'feminists' feeling the need to shout, go mental, and blow their top for a lot of stuff at the moment... Apparently at 9 year old children too 😏

Bbq1 · 17/09/2022 10:24

Strugglingtodomybest · 17/09/2022 07:55

I can't believe that you are a feminist and can't see why this is offensive.

This.

My ds is 17, and to my knowledge, has never thought or said anything like this. He certainly doesn't see girls as inferior. I find it strange that a mother claiming to be a feminist would raise a child with misogynistic views. I would think that a child of 9 using that phrase must have heard it used before...

TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 17/09/2022 10:24

Florenz · 17/09/2022 09:22

He could have just been saying it as a statement of fact, unaware of the sexist connotations.

@Florenz

but WHY? WHy would it occur to him that that was even a thing? He wouldn't have said 'you were beaten by a boy' .

I don't think his parents are any where near feminists.

when I was young (I'm 53 now) sayings such as 'stop being a big girls blouse' or 'they're playing worse than a bunch of girl guides' were often flung about casually. I'd be surprised to hear them now.

he clearly thought the boy should automatically do better than the girl & that it was embarrassing for the boy to kiss to a 'mere girl'

WAY too harsh a punishment for a 9 yo though. He meant it as a put down, but understanding WHY it's wrong needed to be explained as he didn't understand. Punish him next time if he hasn't learnt his lesson, if he has why does it need to go on his record?? The school is not helping anyone here.

Sh4rkAttack · 17/09/2022 10:29

Is be horrified if a 9 year old of mine said this. And utterly ashamed of my own parenting if they didn't see why it was wrong.

Cillery · 17/09/2022 10:31

I find this sort of thing totally nonsensical because a nine-year-old boy is just reacting like a nine-year-old boy. He shouldn’t be punished for this but the teacher should’ve took him aside and talked to him about how inappropriate the remark was. For goodness sake the school is supposed to be there for education and this is all part of education for a kid. If he keeps doing it then that’s another matter but at least a talking to and a warning should be given first.

Mischance · 17/09/2022 10:34

How can it be right to punish a child for saying something that he is too young to realise could be misinterpreted or give offence to some? Explain to him that this is the case, but do not punish him.

He is a child - he is learning - he is finding his way into the social niceties that dictate our actions. Give him a break.

The school are out of order; so keen to display their equality credentials that they forget their prime function: to teach and to help children to learn. Their job is to get inside the heads of their pupils and look at things from their point of view. Here is something this child does not know - let's help him to understand it.

It has come to something when being a feminist involves victimising a child. I was in on the early years of the feminist movement and would have been horrified if I thought that such a thing could happen.

The punishment is both inappropriate at all and out of proportion.

midgetastic · 17/09/2022 10:35

Why is a 9 year old too young to understand?

KnickerlessParsons · 17/09/2022 10:38

Trainfromredhill · 17/09/2022 07:57

No, but he’s pretty competitive, so if he’d won (or lost 😂) he would have made a fuss.
he’s been severely punished for something and he doesn’t even know why.

Have you explained why? What doesn't he understand?

DontTouchThat · 17/09/2022 10:38

Formal punishment for this is completely over the top. A simple ‘Oi we shouldn’t say that because….’ With an explanation heard by all the boys, would have been enough. Maybe even given them the chance to ask questions.
He’s 9 fgs.

LuciferRising · 17/09/2022 10:42

Why doesn't your son know why he shouldn't have said it?

My daughter is 10 and she has been spotting shit like this for years.

Dalaidramailama · 17/09/2022 10:42

It’s because men know they’re instinctively stronger than women physically from the get go. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s most certainly true. As a general rule they are physically stronger, it’s why we kick off when trans women are allowed to compete in female sports.

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 17/09/2022 10:48

midgetastic · 17/09/2022 10:35

Why is a 9 year old too young to understand?

I think some people say this, like they are a child, still learning, etc, because they think some children are too young to understand that all people are equal. Colour, sex, race whatever. It really shouldn't need to come to this in the first place, but we are still living in an unequal world.

beastlyslumber · 17/09/2022 10:49

Bit of an overreaction by the teacher (and by several people on this thread). He's 9, ffs. I would ask the teacher what she was thinking.

LuciferRising · 17/09/2022 10:50

He is a child - he is learning - he is finding his way into the social niceties that dictate our actions. Give him a break.

He should be pulled up on it. I bet many girls at this age would be annoyed by this and could state why. Boys will be boys eh?

saleorbouy · 17/09/2022 10:56

Males and females have different physical, mental and cognitive attributes that make them able to excel in activities.
This is the reason many competitions and most sports are separated into male and female fields especially physical activities.
Your son is probably aware of this and is used to competing among his male peers. It seems a bit harsh to be punished for his statement since I doubt if the girl had said she had 'beaten a boy' she would be castigated rather more likely triumphantly celebrated.
If it was said without being mean then I think it's been taken completely out of context.
Being gracious in victory and magnanimous in defeat is a much better lesson to teach children.

ShortOfShorts · 17/09/2022 10:57

OP Does your son have form for being a sore loser? If so, this may be the moment the teacher felt that enough was enough, and that he needed a sharp check.

I know a few boys whose parents think they’re just so sporty and competitive, and only pay lip service to good sportsmanship. It’s clear they think their son is so good that of course he expects to win, and is upset if he doesn’t.

With some of these parents, I even get the impression that they privately see it as being a good thing when their son is a sore loser and an ‘alpha’ character who is too rough in sport and won’t play with girls/weaker players/anyone he doesn’t think is up to his standard. It makes him more manly and tough and likely to succeed, in their eyes.

Helgadaley · 17/09/2022 10:58

DontTouchThat · 17/09/2022 10:38

Formal punishment for this is completely over the top. A simple ‘Oi we shouldn’t say that because….’ With an explanation heard by all the boys, would have been enough. Maybe even given them the chance to ask questions.
He’s 9 fgs.

This. Children say all sorts of things without having an idea of implications. It's been totally blown up by the school. It's adults putting their own interpretation on a throw away comment. The school could have explained why the comment could be offensive, but without the draconian reaction.
To say 'replace 'girl' with 'black' is just silly. He didn't say 'black.' To assume that the word 'girl' is equally insulting as the word 'black' is disingenuous.

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