Big Dog is enjoying his last weeks. Who will be leader - Truss or Sunak Thread 13

[cakeorwine]

New thread as needed.

I wonder what new promises will come out this week?

Added to that most NHS staff take patient confidentiality pretty seriously. No one is going to contradict a patients public version of events if it means revealing the patients confidential information.

Also see Archie Battersby. Anything reported about him was from publicly available court documents or by his mother. No member of staff commented publicly even when the staff were being accused of all sorts.

'Added to that most NHS staff take patient confidentiality pretty seriously'

Pretty seriously? Well yes it is a sackable offence to gossip about patients hence these musings that he wasn't really ill because 'there was leaks innit' are rather ridiculous.

There isn't one ICU consultant or HCP that would have gone along with the conspiracy theories spouted on here.

Neither of the nurses who looked after Johnson still works in the NHS, in fact one has returned to New Zealand so they’re free to say whatever they like now. As you say, they wouldn’t have commented at the time so they’d obviously not have refuted whatever tommyrot Johnson came out with.

Why are we discussing the health of a has been PM more than two years after the event?

Ignoring the very public evidence around his recovery that points to a much less serious infection than was the perception encouraged by No. 10 and very Tory sympathetic (because they’ve bought and paid for their interests being protected) media outlets.

You’re incredibly confident that you can speak on behalf of complete strangers? We can just accept that the most we know, indeed the only fact, is that they’re bound by professional standards that if broken would likely cost them a career.

BJ was ill. Was he very ill with numerous risk factors involved that people can clearly see with their own eyes? Yes. Was he seriously ill and a whisker from being ventilated or dying? No.

By all accounts, it doesn’t seem to have impacted his attitude towards his own health going forward.

There isn't one ICU consultant or HCP that would have gone along with the conspiracy theories spouted on here

..backed up by the point you are refusing to acknowledge "No one who was as ill as you pretend, would then go and have a series of parties mid pandemic"

But you are correct, no one really knows, its hearsay and gossip, with the main witness Boris Johnson, who all Tory candidates said was dishonest and none would give him any sort of job.

Those useless Tories. Boris awol! gallivanting on posh holidays and no doubt having non stop partying yet the nhs backlog shrinks from 22k to under 200! How very dare he be sooooo competent

Where is that stat from and what does it apply to @JaniieJones ? Because cancer waiting times are spiralling out of control, for example.

As for the bodies piling high comment. Of course Johnson is capable of saying that, even though he had covid himself. He thinks he is special and his life is worth far more than other people's. His covid experience didn't teach him anything.

There isn't one ICU consultant or HCP that would have gone along with the conspiracy theories spouted on here

So what are you saying? They signed the OSA and would have blabbed and got the sack after decades as a consultant? Nah.
He was put in ICU (not on a ventilator) as a precaution because of who he is.

That is truly shocking.

'He was put in ICU (not on a ventilator) as a precaution because of who he is.'

Patients are sometimes in ICU (not on a ventilator) for monitoring. Repeated arterial blood gas monitoring isn't something done on the wards for example. I'll say it again ICU consultants would not have gone along with the farce you are stating as fact.

'Why are we discussing the health of a has been PM more than two years after the event?'

Oh I cba to scroll back but some posters claimed it was all made up. He was sat in a sideroom having a party no doubt.

Morning @JaniieJones I asked you some questions posted at 21.36 care to respond?

He was put in ICU (not on a ventilator) as a precaution because of who he is

Exactly. They could not take any risks with him. An ordinary person would have had to struggle on at home. He spoke about sitting up in bed chatting to the staff and also said he worked from his bed.

I'll say it again ICU consultants would not have gone along with the farce you are stating as fact.

That is one of the most ridiculous things you've said.
What farce? We know he had covid, he was shaking hands with anyone and everyone!
So... you have the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom with Covid, he's not very well (but it's not life threatening), the Consultants would not be saying... get him out of here, he's well enough to be discharged!
He was obviously poorly with Covid, it was more unknown, but I betcha he was no more ill than many others who had it, like my DH who was 3-4 days in bed. He was carefully monitored because he is the PM.

We saw footage of him, he was wheezy and a bit clammy looking at one point, but he wasn't at death's door.

There is no way that the average poorly COVID patient, at the height of the pandemic, would be in an ITU bed with one to one care from qualified and very expensive staff if they didn't require ventilatory support, and we know that Johnson was never ventilated.

Now, there's an argument that, for the greater good, the leader of a country, in a time of extraordinary crisis, should have medical and nursing care over and above what is strictly clinically required (and tbh that happens not infrequently with VVIPs in my experience).

It's also quite reasonable that a very poorly Prime Minister should be cared for in a separate room with dedicated staff for both security reasons and to avoid disruption to other patients/staff. We know Johnson was in a separate room adjacent to the ITU.

It seems to me most likely that, for expediency and because this was a VVV VIP, Johnson received ITU care, although not fulfilling the clinical criteria for such care.

'We saw footage of him, he was wheezy and a bit clammy looking at one point, but he wasn't at death's door.'

Perhaps you should apply for a job seeing how knowledgeable you are in all things critical care related? Yes we saw him on telly a 'bit clammy' but here's the thing, patients deteriorate they don't always stay in one condition from diagnosis to recovery you know.

Just show a bit of respect for the NHS and the critical care staff who do not admit people because they are a 'bit clammy'. I bet he was indeed far worse than your dh who was in bed for a couple of days.

Anywayyyy. Moving on

Posted this on a weather thread by mistake!

BREAKING | Nearly 30,000 waited more than 12 hours in English A&Es last month - a record high.

data.spectator.co.uk/category/nhs

https://twitter.com/simmons__/status/1557647957016678404?s=21&t=0Flkof7ZJFdKqdIUPQfR6Q

30,000 waiting longer than 12 hours in July. What will the winter bring?

However ill or not, Jonhson hasn't taken Covid serious.

But yes to moving on, back to the cost of living crisis with a zombie government.

Fuel bills crisis averted?

The Conservatives plan to stand outside their houses and clap the entire nation every Monday night during the Winter, giving 65 million people 'a warm, fuzzy feeling that should keep them heated for a week.'

twitter.com/Exploding_Heads/status/1557655791406022657?t=DXjsft13rcYHPD1405G8kw&s=19

"Truss also said she would give the “absolutely brilliant” Kemi Badenoch a job if she wanted as she promised a “leaner No 10” that would not micro-manage the cabinet. “No 10 has become a bit too presidential,” she told a GB News husting, promising to appoint ministers who would “stand up to Whitehall” and stay loyal rather than “spend their time briefing the press”."

I read this as Truss has agreed to hand over much more control to the ERG. As noted previously they felt let down that they weren't fully in control of Johnson. Standing up to Whitehall no doubt means ignoring practical advice from anyone that isn't ideologically driven.

I am genuinely concerned that Badenoch's desire for "rigorous whole class learning" will mean those with additional needs will be left to flounder and those who are particularly talented in areas won't get extra opportunities to stretch their learning. Never mind binning extra staff (TA's?) and "peripheral activities" (which, as it was said without context, I interpreted as interests connected to sports and arts).

I predict there is going to be a lot more time and public money wasted on cultivating culture war issues to distract from cost of living.

Excerpt taken from

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/risi-sunak-hints-at-more-windfall-taxes-to-tackle-soaring-energy-bills-xvt5jwphr?utmsource=Sailthru&utmmmedium=email&utmcampaign=Best%20of%20Times%202022%20Aug%2011&utmmterm=audienceBESTTOFTIMES

Perhaps you should apply for a job seeing how knowledgeable you are in all things critical care related?

Oh don't be silly. If he was at death's door, he would hardly be on telly would he?

Just show a bit of respect for the NHS and the critical care staff who do not admit people because they are a 'bit clammy'. I bet he was indeed far worse than your dh who was in bed for a couple of days

He wasn't admitted because he was a bit clammy (you don't like that phrase do you?)
This was after he came out. And you seem to know without fail he was far worse than my DH. That is really funny, as you've just criticised me for knowing about critical care. You're taking that mantle now!

It’s shockingly believable. I’ve had cause to have experience of ambulances, A&E and inpatient care (not for me) over the past couple of months and it’s frightening. Anyone who can be discharged is, even if they’re still very poorly and then face home care with an average ambulance taking two hours of it all goes wrong. I’d like to see the figures for reattendance/-admittance at the moment. I’d put good money on them being very high.

Repeated arterial blood gas monitoring isn't something done on the wards for example

yes it is. At least it is since covid.

Iain Duncan Smith, addressing a Conservative religious group, says he “hates” the fact they banned conversion therapy and that Liz Truss agrees with him.

twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1557665148600520707?t=cYFzjC0E835rpXa2TYgUqQ&s=19

Horrible man

Aside from the fact that conversion therapy is reprehensible IDS and Truss are admitting to lying to people about their aims in order to secure votes & power. Utterly untrustworthy.